Shooting at Jason Aldean show in Las Vegas, 50+ dead
- Thread starter Jbird
- Start date
The color of the shooter's skin?
Dogsinplastic
avuncular to no one
Some of the latest news on the Vegas shooting is the that deniers/conspiracy theorists are going after the victims, calling them crisis actors. It's un-fucking-believable how these minds work. Nothing will ever be enough to have them reconsider their stance on guns...the age of victims, the number of victims, etc.
You're right though Mark, that this is stalemated as an agree to disagree situation, but how the fuck is anyone comfortable doing nothing? It's as scary as it it is enraging.
You're right though Mark, that this is stalemated as an agree to disagree situation, but how the fuck is anyone comfortable doing nothing? It's as scary as it it is enraging.
bsman
b00b
In California, state law prevents me from selling or buying a weapon -- private sale, gun show, or gun shop -- without having the instant background check and going through the waiting period. If I want to sell my rifle, I have to do it through an FFL holder, who (for a commission not to exceed $10) takes care of the paperwork. It's a PITA, but it's hardly the Communist revolution the NRA makes it out to be. BTW - I was an NRA member for many years, until approximately the 90s, when it ceased to be an organization devoted to supporting the shooting sports and became wholly devoted to propping up the arms industry as a political lobbying group.
Chad
Slender Hobbit
I'm not sure why folks think that is unreasonable.
bsman
b00b
Because:
There are a lot of folks out there who have been conditioned to believe that the only thing standing between us and 1950s Soviet-style repression is an armed citizenry. It's an amazingly effective form of self-delusion that plays right into the hero fantasies that (especially) boys have been socialized to aspire to. Really, the NRA is incredibly good at psychological manipulation.
2manband
Kick Henry Jackassowski
I think the waiting period is pretty dumb if its applied to somebody who already owns guns. Whats it going to prevent in that situation?
I also think restrictions about barrell length and rifle/pistol distinctions are dumb. If both long guns and handguns require the same paperwork, then it wont matter.
There could be trade-offs. We could change the law to slow down these mass shooters and save some lives without decreasing total net freeburty.
But both sides are so dug in that common sense compromises will never happen
I also think restrictions about barrell length and rifle/pistol distinctions are dumb. If both long guns and handguns require the same paperwork, then it wont matter.
There could be trade-offs. We could change the law to slow down these mass shooters and save some lives without decreasing total net freeburty.
But both sides are so dug in that common sense compromises will never happen
Chad
Slender Hobbit
It could possibly prevent some casualties in the Vegas case. If the dude had to wait for his last purchase, he may not have been able to get so many shots off. I know its a stretch, just trying to come up with an answer.
I'm still not sure why we can't approach it like a drivers license. You take a class, get you gun license for class A type guns. You want to move up to the next class of guns, take the next class and get issued a Class B gun type license and so on. You go to a gun show, show your valid license, buy your gun. You are a private seller, you ask to see the gun license, and they have one, make the sale. Then you know the person buying the gun has had some form of training, is not on some kind of watch list or is a convicted felon. I'm not sure why anyone wouldn't want gun owners to have had some basic firearm training before they are allowed to purchase a gun.
wagdog
Ack
I'm comfortable doing nothing about gun control. I'm comfortable discussing it as well, but I'm not going or accept constant insults because of my position.
Going after victims is despicable.
That said, the "authorities" are partially to blame here. They can't seem to get the story straight on this guy or the timeline. It doesn't seem like it should be that difficult. There are hundreds (thousands?) of cameras recording in every casino 24/7. There are also cameras rolling on the strip 24/7. Add in the countless cell phones, the fact that a guard was shot and it should be pretty easy to figure out what happened and when. To make matters worse, they report that Paddock's home was burglarized days after the shooting! How the F does that happen?
Is there a conspiracy? Probably not, but there are certainly discrepancies in the investigation. Whether these discrepecies are simply incompetence or a cover up is what's feeding the fires of these nutters.
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wagdog
Ack
There are reports that there were 20+ rifles in the room. Waiting periods wouldn't have made a difference.
Waiting periods and permits do make a difference when someone finds they suddenly need a gun, like an estranged spouse or victim of domestic violence. http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/06/1...dered-by-ex-while-waiting-for-gun-permit.html
Driving isn't a right.
Do we need a permit or class to exercise our first amendment rights?
Dogsinplastic
avuncular to no one
- Full psych eval for any purchase, don't care about the wait time
- includes all sales, private or gun dealer
- one rifle one hand gun MAX
- no assault rifles
- full registration and annual tracking of ownership, e.g. inspection stations
- limits on the amount of ammunition you can buy/have/stockpile at any given time.
- full account of said ammo, when and where used (proof for ranges, shells from hunting and private property shooting)
- every box has is batched with a unique serial # etched in each shell/casing
- full account of said ammo, when and where used (proof for ranges, shells from hunting and private property shooting)
"Real heroes don't need guns." - The Tick
Chad
Slender Hobbit
The first amendment states "right to keep and bear arms" not purchase them. You don't need the class to keep or bear them, just to purchase them
If we are going to stick to the second amendment, kids should be able to purchase guns, there is no age limit set in the constitution and there is for voting. Convicted felons should be able to buy them too, I don't see a clause in the second amendment saying otherwise.
Chad
Slender Hobbit
I would think the discrepancies are partially due to the 24/7 news cycle. I think the official stance on any investigation should be say nothing until the investigation is over.
VoidTerraFirma
Live to wine
"Probably Not"?!?
2manband
Kick Henry Jackassowski
I agree with some forms of gun control but a number of these are just misguided.
First off, many people reload their own ammunition. You can even cast your own bullets, so tightly controlling ammo sales isnt going to work.
Secondly, many people own several rifles for the perfectly legitimate purpose of hunting. You dont shoot rabbits and elk with the same rifle. You either wont kill the elk humanely or you wont have any rabbit left to eat.
Third, its very difficult to define "assault rifle" in a specific and legally defensible way. Its like banning "strat style" guitars.
Im fine with a waiting period and training for new gun buyers. Im fine with background checks for ALL gun purchases. Get rid of bump stocks and high cap magazines. Lets try that first and see if things dont improve.
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I'm not a gun owner and I was thinking of closing this thread because it's no longer about the OP and don't want it getting nuts. But honestly, this statement right here is makes a massive amount of sense as a first step.
And I think that gun owners should have to re-qualify at regular intervals to own guns. Take a test and submit to a current background check. You're never going to get rid of guns in this country but there needs to be what I consider "common sense" regulation for owning deadly weapons. And before anyone brings up knives or that you can kill people with a car, you can't throw a knife or a car far enough with any real accuracy to do the damage that a projectile weapon can. What is wrong with what 2manband is suggesting?
wagdog
Ack
You can cause all sorts of havoc with a vehicle: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Nice_attack - 86 dead, more than were killed in this attack, which was a pretty nightmarish scenario.
The problem with "common sense" gun control is fanatics go nuts with it and you end up with shit like was posted above: ain't gonna happen.
Several states have very restrictive gun control and out of control violence committed with guns. My state has a very high gun ownership rate and very low rates of crime and murder.
People chomping at the bit to "do something" really mean "restrict everyone in hopes we'll restrict the right person". The list posted by Dogsinotpalc is *exactly* why I'll never agree to any form of govt mandated gun control. You give an inch and they keep taking.
I would like to see more people take gun safety courses, especially if they're going to carry a weapon. I'd like to think people would voluntarily take a course (or refresher) if it were available. Mandating it is again a slippery slope that I'm not comfortable with.
Chad
Slender Hobbit
What state do you live in?
VoidTerraFirma
Live to wine
Just for the record...
We are willing to state emphatically and unequivocally that no form of restriction on gun sales or gun ownership can ever be effective against reducing incidents of mass murder because people who want to enact such restrictions are "fanatics". Meanwhile, the Las Vegas shooting is "probably not a conspiracy" and gun laws in Australia have led to people being "unable to defend themselves against terror attacks".
Also..."swimming pools"
We are willing to state emphatically and unequivocally that no form of restriction on gun sales or gun ownership can ever be effective against reducing incidents of mass murder because people who want to enact such restrictions are "fanatics". Meanwhile, the Las Vegas shooting is "probably not a conspiracy" and gun laws in Australia have led to people being "unable to defend themselves against terror attacks".
Also..."swimming pools"