Yesterday's RS-25 Test

Steverino said:
I'm just east of New Orleans (in MS). They're tested here first.

Yes, it'll definitely be pucker time. Not sure if you're using O rings in regards to SRBs, but the engines I'm talking about are LOX/LH engines. The SLS will use SRBs though, just like the Shuttle.

That being said, a whole lot more than O rings will be gone over again and again. And yes, some stupid mistakes have been made, Hubble first, then the Mars Orbiter you mentioned. As long as humans are in the loop, mistakes will be made.

It's been a long time, before my time there, but 5 F1 engines were also fired simultaneously here, on the same test stand these RS-25s will be tested. The old guys have long retired (my Dad being one of them) but the facility will be the same, all the history data, and documentation are still here,and at least we know that if it'll hold down 5 Saturn V engines, it will surely hold 4 of these. But you just never know, and that's why we test them here on the ground before they go to Kennedy.
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Yeah, "O-Rings" was a fairly tongue in cheek nod toward the Challenger disaster. The information that came to light in the wake of that incident which illustrates how many opportunities were overlooked to avoid that tragedy still leaves a bad taste. Morton Thyocol quite literally begged them not to launch in those conditions. Such a tremendous tragedy that was entirely avoidable.

Again, I have tremendous confidence in and respect for NASA and it's contractors. My only real concern is that the pitifully small budget they have could lead to another very bad decision based on the expense of delaying a mission until the next viable launch window. Ultimately, those 7 Challenger crew members would likely be alive today but for bureaucracy taking precedent over safety. They had a massive budget back then compared to now, and that still didn't mitigate the notion that saving face and a few (million) bucks was more important than heeding the direct warnings of the people who built the damned thing.
 
OGG said:
Yeah, "O-Rings" was a fairly tongue in cheek nod toward the Challenger disaster. The information that came to light in the wake of that incident which illustrates how many opportunities were overlooked to avoid that tragedy still leaves a bad taste. Morton Thyocol quite literally begged them not to launch in those conditions. Such a tremendous tragedy that was entirely avoidable.

Again, I have tremendous confidence in and respect for NASA and it's contractors. My only real concern is that the pitifully small budget they have could lead to another very bad decision based on the expense of delaying a mission until the next viable launch window. Ultimately, those 7 Challenger crew members would likely be alive today but for bureaucracy taking precedent over safety. They had a massive budget back then compared to now, and that still didn't mitigate the notion that saving face and a few (million) bucks was more important than heeding the direct warnings of the people who built the damned thing.
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Agreed. Let's just hope some lessons have been learned. I'd like to say they have, but I'm just one in thousands. And then there's always the chance that something unforeseen or even thought about happens. That's one part of space exploration no one can prepare for.

I noticed I'd said earlier that "as long as humans are in the loop, mistakes will be made" and of course that is true and I can say that here with friends, but do you know words like that are not spoken in the workplace there. As cheesy as that quote "failure is not an option" is, people there really do work to that. I'm sure they do at SpaceX and the Russians too, for whom I have much respect.
 
Steverino said:
Agreed. Let's just hope some lessons have been learned. I'd like to say they have, but I'm just one in thousands. And then there's always the chance that something unforeseen or even thought about happens. That's one part of space exploration no one can prepare for.

I noticed I'd said earlier that "as long as humans are in the loop, mistakes will be made" and of course that is true and I can say that here with friends, but do you know words like that are not spoken in the workplace there. As cheesy as that quote "failure is not an option" is, people there really do work to that. I'm sure they do at SpaceX and the Russians too, for whom I have much respect.
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Absolutely. That mindset is a must when the stakes are so high and the smallest error could have unimaginable consequences.

I have several older relatives (all but one are long since passed) that worked in the Aerospace and/or space industry. One of them even worked for Kelly Johnson in the Skunkworks during it's most prolific and celebrated period before going to work at Morton Thyocol. Another worked for North American Aviation... Which as you know became Rockwell. Both of them had direct ties to, and were involved with the development of the shuttle program. This mantra was something I remember vividly discussing with them. You could feel an "aura" of this mentality in their presence.

Even my dear old Grandmother who was a "Rosie the riveter" in San Diego during WW2 building bombers and stayed on with Convair/General Dynamics long after the war, had a touch of that vibe coming off of her. She once told me something along the lines of "one bad rivet could lose the war"... Maybe a bit over the top, but it speaks to how seriously they took their jobs.
 
Speaking of the o-ring debacle; did you realize that it inadvertently led to one of the largest non nuclear explosion ever recorded, due to a little communications glitch. When the shuttle program was put on hold in the aftermath of the Challenger tragedy, someone forgot to cancel their solid fuel production run. So this little company in Henderson Nv. called Pepcon kept chugging away, storing all their propellant until it was time to ship it to Morton Thiokol. Then one beautiful morning a little fire broke out in the desert...



 
OGG said:
They lost a very, very expensive Mars mission spacecraft because somebody failed to take telemetry data programming code provided by ESA in Metric value and convert it to standard before including that data in the trajectory sequence that had ONE JOB... tell the spacecraft where to go. Whoops!

Uh, Houston? We have a problem. Our Billion dollar, decade in development project thinks it's French and has decided to swing by Mercury for a bagguette and a pack of cigarettes.
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It was a simple miscommunication...

download-2.jpg


:wink:
 
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335clone said:
Speaking of the o-ring debacle; did you realize that it inadvertently led to one of the largest non nuclear explosion ever recorded, due to a little communications glitch. When the shuttle program was put on hold in the aftermath of the Challenger tragedy, someone forgot to cancel their solid fuel production run. So this little company in Henderson Nv. called Pepcon kept chugging away, storing all their propellant until it was time to ship it to Morton Thiokol. Then one beautiful morning a little fire broke out in the desert...



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Oh shit! Yeah, I remember that. Scary stuff. Very costly "whoops".
 
Faked, just like the so called "Moon landings"!


:helper:

The safety discussion above inspired me to patch together some screen shots of a Life Magazine article segment featuring my uncle's warning and investigation of the Apollo 1 fire.
37833922466_b8e80e93ff_o.jpg
 
Orbital was testing an engine here a few years ago. They'd had a few successful tests prior. It blew up on the stand, taking out the upper sections of the stand. Investigations ensued, and I have to say I was just a bit nervous as they turned over every stone. My involvement was calibration of the DC power supplies that controlled the throttling. I knew my work was sound, but that worry lingers. They eventually narrowed it down to a turbopump. This was the Aerojet AJ-26, but it was actually an older Russian NK-33. Orbital bought around 30 of them. Needless to say, that engine has been shelved.
 
Steverino said:
Orbital was testing an engine here a few years ago. They'd had a few successful tests prior. It blew up on the stand, taking out the upper sections of the stand. Investigations ensued, and I have to say I was just a bit nervous as they turned over every stone. My involvement was calibration of the DC power supplies that controlled the throttling. I knew my work was sound, but that worry lingers. They eventually narrowed it down to a turbopump. This was the Aerojet AJ-26, but it was actually an older Russian NK-33. Orbital bought around 30 of them. Needless to say, that engine has been shelved.
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the only testing i ever got to see was at my AF base, when they'd hook up one of the GE J-79's to the test cell and light the cans. not as impressive as a rocket engine, but still lots of noise and flame out the back. :grin:
 
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mongooz said:
the only testing i ever got to see was at my AF base, when they'd hook up one of the GE J-79's to the test cell and light the cans. not as impressive as a rocket engine, but still lots of noise and flame out the back. :grin:
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We tested a smaller engine for TRW years back. They were test fired horizontally, with the flame shooting above the ground. This was done at the E Stand. This was the first test stand I worked on.
SSC_TR-106_Rocket_Engine_under_test.jpg

They cleared back the trees over 100 yards. Still set the woods on fire.
 
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