National Anthem

mongooz said:
yea....i don't think we need a new national anthem written by a christian nut job.
we have enough problems with those folks as it is.
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No, definitely talking 1965 Barry McGuire. Because if we can fantasize about a new anthem, involving a time machine isn't much of a stretch.
 
sunvalleylaw said:
Admitting and addressing those things shows courage, something out nation has been known for. Pull that bandage off and let that wound get some air, and all that. Makes it a perfect anthem. The heroes or situations featured in Springsteen's best anthems also are human and flawed for example. And his best work does not approach this song (that he admits I believe, and he likes to cover this song).

Kinda what I wanted Hillary and her campaign to do with the problems with the DNC and the primary process, and the concerns of the Bernie supporters. Admit there are problems, and vow to address them. Shows courage, honesty, and grit. I believe she has some of that, as she has worked this long for things she cares about. But she doesn't show it very much publicly, and IMHO puts her foot in her mouth publicly by either saying the wrong thing, or not addressing the issues at all.

She should listen to that song for a while. A good long while.
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This is kinda the wrong thread, but I agree on Hillary. That said, it's the nature of the beast. In modern politics you can't really expand or change your views and accountability was zeroed out during W's administration. The only time it's okay is when the overwhelming majority of Americans see the change as necessary (e.g.: same sex marriage). So a modern candidate can't risk being called a "flip-flopper" or be accused of "waffling" on any issue or policy. And mistakes are never to be acknowledged, unless you've cheated on a spouse (and then only sometimes). The unavoidable aspect of flawed humanity has been stripped or will be stripped from anyone from anyone in or seeking public office.

I think acknowledging mistakes and openly seeking to rectify them is a sign of strength of character. Changing your stance on issues as you learn about and/or gain more experience with them shows intelligence. However, it has become apparent that these are pretty much unacceptable traits in politicians.
 
Dogsinotpalc said:
This is kinda the wrong thread, but I agree on Hillary. That said, it's the nature of the beast. In modern politics you can't really expand or change your views and accountability was zeroed out during W's administration. The only time it's okay is when the overwhelming majority of Americans see the change as necessary (e.g.: same sex marriage). So a modern candidate can't risk being called a "flip-flopper" or be accused of "waffling" on any issue or policy. And mistakes are never to be acknowledged, unless you've cheated on a spouse (and then only sometimes). The unavoidable aspect of flawed humanity has been stripped or will be stripped from anyone from anyone in or seeking public office.

I think acknowledging mistakes and openly seeking to rectify them is a sign of strength of character. Changing your stance on issues as you learn about and/or gain more experience with them shows intelligence. However, it has become apparent that these are pretty much unacceptable traits in politicians.
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I totally agree with the second part. You may be right that the first part is the current thinking. But I don't think it has to be. Maybe I am wrong, and the majority of voters needed to win think as you say. But I believe a lot do not. At least from talking to people I know. Some measure of common sense still exists.
 
sunvalleylaw said:
I totally agree with the second part. You may be right that the first part is the current thinking. But I don't think it has to be. Maybe I am wrong, and the majority of voters needed to win think as you say. But I believe a lot do not. At least from talking to people I know. Some measure of common sense still exists.
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Yeah, but then there are millions, maybe even tens of millions that think Trump should be our next president. People that have seemingly been waiting for a "politician" to speak to their prejudice/racism, fear/xenophobia, anger/hatred, misogyny (even among his female supporters), and more. They have turned a blind eye to all his faults and just want his isolationist ideal to become our reality, with extra pseudo-Christianity.

These people will never be happy with any other options and Trump's fine with getting them riled up to boycott the election regardless of the margin of loss...if he loses. Please, let that shithead lose...
 
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Dogsinotpalc said:
Yeah, but then there are millions, maybe even tens of millions that think Trump should be our next president. People that have seemingly been waiting for a "politician" to speak to their prejudice/racism, fear/xenophobia, anger/hatred, misogyny (even among his female supporters), and more. They have turned a blind eye to all his faults and just want his isolationist ideal to become our reality, with extra pseudo-Christianity.

These people will never be happy with any other options and Trump's fine with getting them riled up to boycott the election regardless of the margin of loss...if he loses. Please, let that shithead lose...
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we were kinda talking about trump and what he keeps doing and doing it more extremely each time. NO ONE says the kind of shit he says and thinks for one blue second they would EVER get elected.
but he keeps doing it and making statements that are more and more extreme and offending larger and larger swaths of america.
there has GOT to be a real end game here. becoming POTUS isn't it. there's got to be something else no one is seeing. and that might be even more scary.
 
mongooz said:
we were kinda talking about trump and what he keeps doing and doing it more extremely each time. NO ONE says the kind of shit he says and thinks for one blue second they would EVER get elected.
but he keeps doing it and making statements that are more and more extreme and offending larger and larger swaths of america.
there has GOT to be a real end game here. becoming POTUS isn't it. there's got to be something else no one is seeing. and that might be even more scary.
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I think it's just that he realized that most politicians have been overestimating the wisdom and decency of the masses for a long time now, and he grabbed the open opportunity.

What's scary is that I'm starting to have warm and nostalgic feelings re: GWB. Which is, frankly, terrifying.
 
Flamencology said:
What's scary is that I'm starting to have warm and nostalgic feelings re: GWB. Which is, frankly, terrifying.
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That sounds like a serious problem that you should deal with head on. Dubya was horrible....or should it be Cheney. Their whole fuck the UN and the rest of the world attitude helped lay further infrastructure for a Trump candidacy. My biggest fear right now is the Trump drops out and someone like Cruz comes back. Cruz is at least as bad, he's just coming at it from a different angle. Arguably, Cruz is worse because he's selling it as doing god's work, but just his myopic conflicted take on the Christian variant of god. Ryan is a twit and a tool, and the rest of the pool is why they ended up with Trump.

My love for Hillary is non-existant, but barring women's health issues and gun control she's as right/conservative a "Democratic" candidate I've seen in my lifetime. That why I'm not even slightly shocked with the GOP folks that are saying they'll vote for her...which I don't necessarily believe (as they will all be voting as privately as anyone else), but... Clinton isn't particularly progressive and neither was her husband (who either backtracked on most of his progressive campaign promises or collapsed under the weight of the political backlash against those ideas). Bernie was 95% my guy, but I hate that he wouldn't budge on gun control. However, Sanders and Clinton match up 75% (give or take) on many issues, so the Bernie or bust people are just being dicks...a mere variant on the assholes that vehemently support Trump.

Shit, I gotta stop.
 
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