Has #MeToo impacted your listening or viewing at all?

Yeah. I’ve rarely been a fan of stand-up comedy. The ratio of brilliant to utter shit is smaller than any other art form that I can think of. There are a handful that I admire, but they’re usually the ones who seem to be fully aware of these problems and who consciously avoid it.

I’m young enough that I just missed Cosby at his peak, and I was never much of a fan. But there were a couple of really great moments that I used to revisit on YouTube, but I don’t any more.

Louis C.K.? Was never a fan of his stand-up, but I do think that his show was occasionally terrific and thought-provoking. And I think that it was quite influential. But again, it’s something that I have no interest in revisiting.

It pisses me off that people defend Michael Jackson, and it pisses me off that his music gets played on the radio and the grocery store aisles. Justifiably triggering for some, let’s pretend that it never happened.

I was a huge Woody Allen fan through my teenage years. His affair and marriage, seriously fucked up, but hey, I could live with it. But since the allegations about Dylan Farrow broke, I haven’t been able to revisit any of his movies, as terrific as the best ones are.

But what troubles me is my inconsistency. I have no trouble rewatching Chinatown or Rosemary’s Baby. I have no trouble listening to Miles Davis or Led Zeppelin or David Bowie. (Yes, there are various shades of grossness here, but it’s all gross)

My wife, on the other hand, is 100% all about throwing the baby out with the bath water. And I can’t say that she’s wrong.
 
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The question of whether you can separate the art from the artist is a tough one for me. It’s not clear to me that the art = artist. Should we toss out art because the artist was a jackass or a criminal? What about products or services? Do we stop using something if we find out the CEO is a scumbag?

Do I have an obligation to assess the moral character of an artist before enjoying his/her art? Or can I bury my head in the sand until I am forced to confront the issue? Are allegations of wrongdoing enough? Or does it require a conviction by a court of law? How do I determine what the “appropriate” response should be for any given wrongdoing? (What’s the criteria for ranking bad acts?)

For me, I am not always consistent on this topic, but what I try to do is reduce or eliminate giving the artist any financial benefit from the art. I may still play a Ryan Adams song at open mic, but I probably won’t stream or buy any of his music in the future. That said, I find my desire to listen to or play Ryan Adams’ songs is reduced because of his actions.

The same with Woody Allen. I loved his movies, and still do, but his personal life has tainted my view of him and his movies. I don’t want to go back an rewatch them, and I would probably skip any new movies.

I was never a big fan of Louis CK, so no issue there.

Where I find the challenge is knowing that so many artists likely did bad things, I will likely never know of those acts, and I will continue to support them and their art. But is saying that I didn’t know a sufficient defense/justification?

I don’t have any answers. It’s enough to make your head spin, and there are too many other things making my head spin at the moment.
 
Deep Eddy said:
The question of whether you can separate the art from the artist is a tough one for me. It’s not clear to me that the art = artist. Should we toss out art because the artist was a jackass or a criminal? What about products or services? Do we stop using something if we find out the CEO is a scumbag?

Do I have an obligation to assess the moral character of an artist before enjoying his/her art? Or can I bury my head in the sand until I am forced to confront the issue? Are allegations of wrongdoing enough? Or does it require a conviction by a court of law? How do I determine what the “appropriate” response should be for any given wrongdoing? (What’s the criteria for ranking bad acts?)

For me, I am not always consistent on this topic, but what I try to do is reduce or eliminate giving the artist any financial benefit from the art. I may still play a Ryan Adams song at open mic, but I probably won’t stream or buy any of his music in the future. That said, I find my desire to listen to or play Ryan Adams’ songs is reduced because of his actions.

The same with Woody Allen. I loved his movies, and still do, but his personal life has tainted my view of him and his movies. I don’t want to go back an rewatch them, and I would probably skip any new movies.

I was never a big fan of Louis CK, so no issue there.

Where I find the challenge is knowing that so many artists likely did bad things, I will likely never know of those acts, and I will continue to support them and their art. But is saying that I didn’t know a sufficient defense/justification?

I don’t have any answers. It’s enough to make your head spin, and there are too many other things making my head spin at the moment.
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Yeah, I don’t think that there are any clear answers, and there won’t be any clears answers any time soon.

But I think it’s valuable to think about it, have conversations about it, struggle with it, etc.

People who try to make a firm “separate the art from the artist!” argument really bother me, for some reason. There really isn’t a lock everything in a vault. But people should acknowledge that their entertainment came with a human price, and they should have to wrestle with that.
 
Deep Eddy said:
But is saying that I didn’t know a sufficient defense/justification?
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Yes.

I think withdrawing support is about withdrawing the power that they abused. We take some responsibility, what little we have, for that power they were given. And collectively withdraw it so they can't do it anymore. Probably the greater responsibility we take the better the response. It is our money/faith in them not some hereditary privilege after all that shoots the vast majority of today's problematic people up to stardom and then into positions of authority.

Individuals are justified in actions based on their own knowledge and relative power over a situation, not cynicism about what people are like. We can't be judged for not hating everyone who ever lived. And even if we are correct in judgment later on based on knowledge we don't have, that decision is still irrational.
 
Woody Allen's son (step-son?) has written a lengthy blog post you can find on the internets; it was incredibly eye-opening to me. Much of what I assumed in that story was different.

My opinions about people don't really influence what I read or watch or listen to, but if I have a visceral negative reaction (Cosby's voice) then that's that.
 
I really never cared about who was behind the curtain when I listen to music or watch a show/movie...still don't...
 
Danhedonia said:
Woody Allen's son (step-son?) has written a lengthy blog post you can find on the internets; it was incredibly eye-opening to me. Much of what I assumed in that story was different.

My opinions about people don't really influence what I read or watch or listen to, but if I have a visceral negative reaction (Cosby's voice) then that's that.
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Ronan Farrow. Allen’s biological son, though many suspect that he’s the result of an affair with Frank Sinatra, Mia Farrow’s ex.
 
DinoMikeSr said:
No. Not at all because I had respect for women before there was a movement. Women are not angels. There are women who will lie and cheat and suck a dick and fuck there way to the achieve their evil goal just like men. Women have equal rights and I think of them as equals. They're as big a dirt bag as any man is and can be.
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#MeToo is not the revelation that women are people too.

It's the revelation about criminal actions by individuals in the entertainment industry, mostly against women but also against men as with Kevin Spacey.

I also think the blanket suspicion about women fucking their way 'to evil goals' is part of the problem. And why people did not believe Weinstein's accusers in the past.
 
Danhedonia said:
No; Moses Farrow.
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His blog posts definitely made me think twice about the allegations against Woody Allen. Not 100%, but enough to believe that the toxic relationship between Woody Allen and Mia Farrow spilled over and the kids were used as tools in the fight.

We should of course always believe the victims. But we know from the McMartin Preschool satanic ritual nonsense that false memories can and do get implanted into kids.
 
The thing that took me aback in his post was how there had been such a misunderstanding on my part about the easily verifiable parts of the story - one would be that his current enamorata Soon Yi (?) never lived in the same house as him and did not ever live a life where he was a father figure.

Actually, that post made me think "what a sad, fucked up family."
 
MJs a hard one for me, as his music is so transcendent and he was an abuse victim himself. I bailed on CK a few years before he was outed. I never cared much for Zep.

With Cosby or Ryan Adams, it's really easy to move on once you see that the whole of the art was a facade.
 
Lerxst said:
I’ve never seen that before. Thanks for posting that.
Even if only a portion of that post is accurate, that’s a stunning depiction of a tragic family life for all involved.
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Kinda how I felt. It sounds ... awful.
 
Cosby
Growing up in Philadelphia region, he was a constant presence. He was always involved in numerous philanthropic efforts around the city. As a kid, a good neighborhood friend’s Dad used to play his albums on the weekends. I’d hear him on the Fat Albert re-runs, see him on re-runs of I Spy in the afternoons then later on the Cosby show. He was on the news regularly and a huge Temple U alum/supporter and hugely visible every year that March madness was coming around.

This really positive image and familiarity made the occasional whispering and eventual allegations against him hard for people to believe it was possible.
 
No more Kindergarten Cop for me.

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The thing about Ryan Adams is it doesn't just taint his catalog, it also affects how you feel about collaborations and contributions to other artists projects.
 
Never followed Ryan Adams or R Kelly and Cosby isn't such a big omnipresent thing over here as he was back home. MJ is tough to turn off to. Such a strange thing that his work has such nostalgia and his favorites of mine are when he was a child, so it's hard to picture a perv when an 8 year old is on the mic. Woody Allen, never a fan. Jimmy Page? yeah, I lost respect for him personally, but the music is Led Zepplin man...
 
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