ugh gig nightmare

GergS

GergS

Butt
This seems a good place to vent my frustrations so I apologize in advance if I sound annoying. My little band played it first paying gig last night and needless to say it didn't go so well. Originally we were supposed to play for an ABATE biker party....backing up another band. They were going to play an hour and we were goin to play an hour. We could use their PA so all we had to do was bring guitars/mics and amps. Great...everyone planned around that. Unfortunately, the first band backed out so it was up to us to provide two hours of entertainment. The crutch of it was, our PA is soooo screwed up. Most of the equipment is owned by one guy....this included 2 bass bins, 2 mid/high, 3 monitors, 1 board, 1 crossover, 4 power amps (one for each speaker), 2 powered mixers for monitors, snake, mics and cables (amps, drums mic'd) out the wazoo...my god it was sooo much stuff and way overkill for the place we were supposed to play. Since the guy (who has the equipment) had prior obligations before the show, it was up to me and my poor Dakota pickup to haul massive amounts of rockstar gear as well as set it up. I've never set up his equipment, nor a PA before but was expected to decipher his cableling and setup before he got there so we could go on ASAP. I managed to get about 75 percent of it done but even the few sound guys that were at the bar could not help me decipher how he had everything connected. Nothing was labeled and with the giant speakers, the bar owner was nervous that we'd be too loud. Well 7:30 rolls around and the guy finally shows up and boy was he worked up. We scrambled to fix my screwups and hook everything else up (except for monitors) and we started around 8.....proceeded to fuck up the first song because we just dove right and and we were all flustered...man, not a good night. And as expected we were too loud and were asked after every song to turn down. But, the attitude of the guy that we are there to put on a show and this is rock and roll and supposed to be loud. Ummm....no we were playing for 50 year old bikers and they were leaving because it was too loud. Man, I thought I could avoid this "my way or the highway" crap with this band but I see it happening again. I tried talking to him last night about possibly rethinking our setup a little but he was having none of it.

Gah..frustrating. Maybe it was because we just weren't prepared for the last minute change. The people in the crowd said we sounded ok but just too loud for the venue. The bar owner probably won't invite us back since we probably pissed her off. Not a good start. Maybe eventually the guy will not be so stubborn and we can work together to maybe streamline our setup a bit.
 
Thats a big bummer.

Problem #1 is having such a ridiculously big PA. The majority of my gigs are played with a Mackie 808m powered PA head:

astjan2010038.jpg


We use it in the studio for classes, too. I usually run a pair of passive monitors, a pair of PA speakers on stands and with the cover band the drummer has a Mackie powered sub. That can be WAY too loud for most bar situations and we'll run a DJ-style dance mix between sets through it that can seriously thump. Having a system with 42 components multiplies the problems exponentially. And if you aren't going to be there to set up your own system it WILL be a disaster. There is just no way for the casual band member to know how to set levels and run cable for a giant set of unknown gear....not your fault by any stretch of the imagination.

The whole "Rock Show" attitude is B.S. as well. You are getting paid to entertain by either the bar or the private party in the bar, therefore they are the boss about your volume. Folks with that attitude run out of venues to not get invited back to in a big hurry. As soon as you accept a gig for money you are agreeing to a set of conditions to receive that money...just like signing a contract in the business world. One of those conditions is that you follow the guidelines of the person forking over the cash. If you have a problem with those conditions you just don't do another gig for that person/entity. The other band backing out was a drag but part of the game...stuff like that happens all of the time and your ability to roll with the punches is part of your "employability". Most of my gigs with my old cover band the last couple of months have been due to other bands backing out of dates and the club booker knowing that we could do the job and we're reliable. I've been getting the gigs personally because my replacement in that band is getting married and can't do the last minute gigs right now before the wedding....and they know that I'm reliable and can pull the gig off....

None of this is really your fault from what I can see from here. And it being a first gig means that you would have had at least a little anxiety and played a little "off" to start with. Throwing all of this stuff in on top of it is like throwing gas on a match, though.
 
Thanks Mark....I was really torqued last night but not too bad today. I appreciate all the input from everyone that's a bar band veteran out there. I just get annoyed with people that won't listen to suggestions. We had a guy there who ran sound for band for 30 years and he told me that we gotta slim down. The stuff out on the market today can do what most of that old 70's gear could do but in a smaller and easily portable package. I think I got delegated the sound guy so I'm thinking if I gotta do this, I'll be getting my own gear at some point and making sure stuff is set up easily and efficiently for the venues we have around here. The largest place we have around here is about the size of your standard single story house....that's only one bar..the rest are smaller than that. Oh well, we will see how it goes. We did a good job song wise...I was pleased but the other crap just ruined the night.
 
GergS said:
Thanks Mark....I was really torqued last night but not too bad today. I appreciate all the input from everyone that's a bar band veteran out there. I just get annoyed with people that won't listen to suggestions. We had a guy there who ran sound for band for 30 years and he told me that we gotta slim down. The stuff out on the market today can do what most of that old 70's gear could do but in a smaller and easily portable package. I think I got delegated the sound guy so I'm thinking if I gotta do this, I'll be getting my own gear at some point and making sure stuff is set up easily and efficiently for the venues we have around here. The largest place we have around here is about the size of your standard single story house....that's only one bar..the rest are smaller than that. Oh well, we will see how it goes. We did a good job song wise...I was pleased but the other crap just ruined the night.
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No problem...we've all been there multiple times.

As far as PA stuff goes for those little venues you can really do much better in terms of size, efficiency and reliability (and simplicity of operation) if you spend a few dollars...well worth it in the long run although buying PA gear is nowhere near as satisfying as guitar stuff :embarrassed:
 
GergS said:
Thanks Mark....I was really torqued last night but not too bad today. I appreciate all the input from everyone that's a bar band veteran out there. I just get annoyed with people that won't listen to suggestions. We had a guy there who ran sound for band for 30 years and he told me that we gotta slim down. The stuff out on the market today can do what most of that old 70's gear could do but in a smaller and easily portable package. I think I got delegated the sound guy so I'm thinking if I gotta do this, I'll be getting my own gear at some point and making sure stuff is set up easily and efficiently for the venues we have around here. The largest place we have around here is about the size of your standard single story house....that's only one bar..the rest are smaller than that. Oh well, we will see how it goes. We did a good job song wise...I was pleased but the other crap just ruined the night.
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I don't have problems like that, I've played a lot of gigs but I could probably count the number of times on one had that we've had to bring a PA. All of the clubs I play have house PA's and soundguys.
 
Sorry to hear about the trainwreck gig. Been there more than once...

We have way too big of a PA too, and it is a PITA to setup and tear down. We always setup the night prior to the show since it takes so long - which sucks up more of the week on gig weeks. But the PA is paid for and the guy won't consider selling it and getting a more reasonable setup. To his credit we do manage to keep the volume at a reasonable level. But our drummer does have a PA as well and we might try that one show - though the PA owner will no doubt want the 20 PAR cans and 6 other 'nightclub' specialty lights he always hooks up. He claims that give us a better show than the other bands. Don't think the average bar patron gives a fat rat's ass about the band lighting. And it's not getting us any gigs either...

None of the clubs we play have a house PA.
 
Dew Knot Hump said:
I don't have problems like that, I've played a lot of gigs but I could probably count the number of times on one had that we've had to bring a PA. All of the clubs I play have house PA's and soundguys.
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Here the only places that have PA's are the showcase clubs. If you are getting paid to play you are also getting paid to bring the worlds cheapest PA rental. Even the place where we do the student shows has a board, mains and a power amp but no monitors so I end up bringing my powered head and a pair of wedges to make the night work...
 
One thing that many bands and DJ's don't understand is that a nightclub or bar is a SOCIAL environment. Yes they want to hear music that makes them groove, or rock, or shake their asses, or whatever... but you're NOT a headliner. The crowd will NOT be transfixed on your every word and singing along for EVERY song of the night. If there can't be some kind of balance in the room where people can talk, and guys can hit on girls, and girls can flirt and get free drinks, then people are going home and the bartenders won't be happy.

The sound should be in ZONES... areas where people can still lean over and talk without screaming from a foot away from each other. Now if you make the dance area right in front of the stage a "boom zone" where people can really feel the music and dance then great, but despite the old rock-n-roll saying, it CAN be too loud.
 
Mark Wein said:
Here the only places that have PA's are the showcase clubs. If you are getting paid to play you are also getting paid to bring the worlds cheapest PA rental. Even the place where we do the student shows has a board, mains and a power amp but no monitors so I end up bringing my powered head and a pair of wedges to make the night work...
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We've talked about this before, I'm lucky that most of the clubs I've played are set up for national touring acts so the PA's are good. The typical deal here is the first $50 at the door goes to the sound guy and the band gets the rest. The best sound I've ever had onstage was about ten years ago, we were playing a street fest dowtown and the guy running the monitor mix was George Straits monitor engineer.
 
baimun said:
One thing that many bands and DJ's don't understand is that a nightclub or bar is a SOCIAL environment. Yes they want to hear music that makes them groove, or rock, or shake their asses, or whatever... but you're NOT a headliner. The crowd will NOT be transfixed on your every word and singing along for EVERY song of the night. If there can't be some kind of balance in the room where people can talk, and guys can hit on girls, and girls can flirt and get free drinks, then people are going home and the bartenders won't be happy.

The sound should be in ZONES... areas where people can still lean over and talk without screaming from a foot away from each other. Now if you make the dance area right in front of the stage a "boom zone" where people can really feel the music and dance then great, but despite the old rock-n-roll saying, it CAN be too loud.
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It depends on the style of music you are playing too. When I was in a heavy rock band it needed to be loud. The style of music I play these days does not lend itself to ear bleeding levels. The guys in my band tell me to turn up way more than they tell me to turn down.
 
My band's PA is small, and normally sounds really good for the gigs we play.

We have one of those 2 piece rolling racks that contains the mixing board, reverb, EQ, pwer conditioner, and a power amp for the monitors on the top, and a dual well CD player and a few other things on the bottom.

We use little 8" Hot Spots for monitors. Our FOH speakers are a powered Mackie 15" sub and two 12" powered Mackie SRM450s. It's been a great system, and I can fit the entire PA, guitar rig, bass rig, 2 basses, 2 guitars, and all necessary stands, along with 3 people into my minivan.

That said, stuff like you were talking about happens. Just last week we had one of the worst gigs we've ever played. Some of it was beyond our control...IE, the owner didn't clear the stage for us until 45 minutes before we were supposed to start playing, so we had to rush to get everything set up. Of course, there was a problem with either a cable or an output on the PA, so the PA sounded like crap and we didn't have enough time to really trouble shoot it. As a result, our mix sucked, which made us play worse. The worse we sounded, the more we (well, not me) drank, which only compounded it. I've already ranted about this in another thread.

Moral of the story is, when it comes to PA, bigger isn't always better. Bar bands are often too loud for the venue, and if they want to continue to get gigs, they should accomodate the manager/owner when it comes to your volume. Also, always make sure the drunkest member of the band is more sober than the average patron. :embarrassed:
 
I posted this in my other rant thread.

This shows the difference between taking what you need vs. taking what you have.

The first part of the video is my van all packed up. It contains the PA, the guitar rig, the bass rig, all stands, 2 guitars, and 2 basses.

The second part of the video is a tour of Chuck (our drummer's) PA warehouse. He owns and operates a sound company. We almost never use any of his stuff, opting to use the smaller, easier to set up stuff that we know sounds great in the places we play.



[youtube]tzm-QklJcVA[/youtube]
 
Prages said:
My band's PA is small, and normally sounds really good for the gigs we play.

We have one of those 2 piece rolling racks that contains the mixing board, reverb, EQ, pwer conditioner, and a power amp for the monitors on the top, and a dual well CD player and a few other things on the bottom.

We use little 8" Hot Spots for monitors. Our FOH speakers are a powered Mackie 15" sub and two 12" powered Mackie SRM450s. It's been a great system, and I can fit the entire PA, guitar rig, bass rig, 2 basses, 2 guitars, and all necessary stands, along with 3 people into my minivan.

That said, stuff like you were talking about happens. Just last week we had one of the worst gigs we've ever played. Some of it was beyond our control...IE, the owner didn't clear the stage for us until 45 minutes before we were supposed to start playing, so we had to rush to get everything set up. Of course, there was a problem with either a cable or an output on the PA, so the PA sounded like crap and we didn't have enough time to really trouble shoot it. As a result, our mix sucked, which made us play worse. The worse we sounded, the more we (well, not me) drank, which only compounded it. I've already ranted about this in another thread.

Moral of the story is, when it comes to PA, bigger isn't always better. Bar bands are often too loud for the venue, and if they want to continue to get gigs, they should accomodate the manager/owner when it comes to your volume. Also, always make sure the drunkest member of the band is more sober than the average patron. :embarrassed:
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O.K. Mr. (well, not me) That's enough. I'm going to come over to the bank and clobber you from behind with mini DEAN and it's going to hurt :mad:
 
Thanks for the suggestions guys. I know a bunch of the bars here on campus have their own PA but it will be a while untill we get those gigs. It's hard to get a chance to play up here but down where I live, there's little shithole bars everywhere and there's barely enough room for a drunk dude to pass out let alone a band with a full PA. The more I think about it the more I'm pleased that we got accomplished what we did. We have more than enough gear for us to strip down and make our setup smaller and more efficient but it takes the guy who owns the PA gear to listen to a bit of reason.

Also, he keeps saying we need a big light show for our stage. I think he's still stuck in the 80's. I'm really trying to stay civil about the whole thing.
 
GergS said:
Thanks for the suggestions guys. I know a bunch of the bars here on campus have their own PA but it will be a while untill we get those gigs. It's hard to get a chance to play up here but down where I live, there's little shithole bars everywhere and there's barely enough room for a drunk dude to pass out let alone a band with a full PA. The more I think about it the more I'm pleased that we got accomplished what we did. We have more than enough gear for us to strip down and make our setup smaller and more efficient but it takes the guy who owns the PA gear to listen to a bit of reason.

Also, he keeps saying we need a big light show for our stage. I think he's still stuck in the 80's. I'm really trying to stay civil about the whole thing.
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tell him he needs some pyro, too :embarrassed:
 
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