Achtung! Studio Engineer types.....

Denverdave

Resident Ragamuffin
My youngest son (about to turn 22) gets out of the US Marine Corps in May sometime. His plan right now is to go to some school and study music production.

Any suggestions on the right way to get into this career from anyone who knows? Are trade schools the way to go, or programs at regular colleges? He is apparently interested in a couple schools in LA but I do not know which.
 
Is Full Sail still around?

I think they taught that kind of thing.

I had a buddy who went to full sail and after a couple of years doing sound for Disney on ice, he is back delivering pizza.
 
I've heard mixed reviews about them. And if I remember correctly they are beyond expensive.

Extremely expensive. I’m not sure if this is still true, but Full Sail used to run classes 24/7 which can really wear people down. That’s probably not good for someone who just got out of the Marines and needs a break from 24/7 stress. On the upside Full Sail has some nice video game industry connections that can make it easy to break into paid work.

My recommendation to people considering expensive niche vocational programs is always to consider getting a business degree somewhere they can minor in their dream career and use summers for extra vocational classes and internships. This way they’ve got a degree that will help them advance in the field of their choice, get a foot-in-the-door job if they can’t get perfect fit in said field, jump to another field if the dream field doesn’t work out, or strike out on their own.
 
Extremely expensive. I’m not sure if this is still true, but Full Sail used to run classes 24/7 which can really wear people down. That’s probably not good for someone who just got out of the Marines and needs a break from 24/7 stress. On the upside Full Sail has some nice video game industry connections that can make it easy to break into paid work.

My recommendation to people considering expensive niche vocational programs is always to consider getting a business degree somewhere they can minor in their dream career and use summers for extra vocational classes and internships. This way they’ve got a degree that will help them advance in the field of their choice, get a foot-in-the-door job if they can’t get perfect fit in said field, jump to another field if the dream field doesn’t work out, or strike out on their own.


I'll pass that along. None of my sons appear to have any interest in a career with any job possibilities whatsoever (dancer, writer, audio engineer). I keep hammering them about having a backup plan. What you said just backs that up. Good advice. Thanks.
 
My son went to Belmont. Mike Curb funds the music school there. My son worked for a while as a manager at the old RCA studio through work/study. He also interned with Big Kenny from Big and Rich. The school is a great place to learn the business. Unfortunately one of the things you learn is studio jobs are almost non-existant. It does open things up in other parts of the business though, my son has a good job with Miktek and has a part time job he really enjoys doing sound engineering for a company that shoots recruiting videos for Universities. It was not just a voc training thing where you learn how to be a knob twister it was a balanced education in the music business including business classes. It is a full 4 year degree.

I know a couple of people who went to Full Sail. Their 24 hour thing is not a regular thing it's just part of training where they do a "load in, set-up, sound check, show, tear down, and load out" all in real time. Their theory being if you go out to do road shows the hours are long and if you can't handle it in school you may as well not waste your time trying it in real life after graduation. I've been on the road and it all looks glamorous from the outside but after a week or so of getting up at 5:30 in the morning, driving to the next town, setting up, doing shows, tearing down, getting into bed at 1:embarrassed:0 and getting up at 5:30 to do it again you wonder why you ever wanted to do it in the first place. Not a bad idea to give these kids a taste of "show biz glamour" before they find out in real life what it's like. We used to call them "50 milers". Because 50 miles from where they joined the show they would decide they didn't like working that hard for that little money and they would quit and go home.
 
That was what I wanted to do out of high school. I managed to get into CCM here at the University of Cincinnati, but unfortunately their e-media program downplayed the audio aspects and focused primarily on video, so I left. I've had a few friends go to Full Sail or SAE, but no matter how technically proficient they have become with software and recording principles, it's very hard to get a job in the actual industry and their expensive degrees are next to worthless.

Add in the extreme ease of modern recording, spending $40k on a recording engineering degree is insane. Drop $5k on a good home recording rig and read, read, read then record, mix, and repeat. Trying to find an unpaid internship or being a runner for an engineer/studio is still the best way to get on the job experience, and that's what will ultimately get you projects. If he's really interested pursuing it at a collegiate level, go to Belmont or Berklee and add a music business degree, or diversify in another area, then network like never before.
 
Eh, I've had a couple of Full Sail graduates come work for me. One was useless, the other went on to become my head engineer. The one who succeeded did so because of his work ethic, natural talent, and attitude, not because of anything he learned at Full Sail. My advice would be to steer him away from that line of work altogether. There is very little opportunity and tons of qualified people already flooding the field. Studios are closing left and right, every day. Not just small time studios, but huge institutions who invented the techniques and gear being used. If he has his heart set on it, I'd suggest he get an EE degree, which could be useful in a career that actually has some opportunity. He can always take some music production courses too or better yet, find an internship where he can learn hands-on from somebody who's actually doing it for real. If he meets the right people and has the talent, the opportunity will likely present itself. If not, he may be able to get into musical equipment design/manufacture, or other field where an EE degree applies.

Early on, after high school, although I was on a path to get into studio work, I found myself getting more opportunities in live sound. I picked up a bunch of union over-hire work at the local theater, and got scooped up by a local sound company that was growing by leaps and bounds. I was lucky enough to grow my career along with it. 10 years ago, that company was bought out by a much larger AV integration company looking to bolster its live event abilities. Here I am now, working in sales and design, and I have some nights and weekends free to play around in my project studio doing projects that I can pick and choose, not relying on it to keep my family fed.

With recording, while you'll always have some higher end studios for those willing to pay for the quality, you have more and more musos doing it themselves in project studios, putting out OK sounding albums, and the market is supporting these trends. However, amateurs can't put together complex sound systems. it just doesn't work that way. And event production isn't as reliant on the music industry. Our biggest clients are Pepsi and United Technologies who do huge events - product rollouts, meetings, merger announcements, etc. but while the corporate market was hobbling along last decade, live music was pretty strong and carried us along. In between, we have sporting events (ESPN's a huge client), large religious gatherings, political rallies, and college commencements. Event production is far from glorious work. Long hours, and you bust your ass, but also end up sitting around for long periods as well. There is good money to be made though, and if you have the talent, you work your way up to a position where you aren't busting ass as much.

Most college courses do little to prepare you for live sound or event production work. It's just a hard field to teach in a classroom setting. If your son was to come to me in four years with a music production degree, I would most like hire him for the skills he learned as a Marine, as opposed to those he learned in school. If he can drive a truck, follow safety protocols, take direction well and work in a team, then he is a step ahead of most college graduates. I've rambled, and don't know if I've helped, or just dicouraged. Good luck to him, and if you or he has any questions I can help with, feel free to PM me.
 
That was what I wanted to do out of high school. I managed to get into CCM here at the University of Cincinnati, but unfortunately their e-media program downplayed the audio aspects and focused primarily on video, so I left. I've had a few friends go to Full Sail or SAE, but no matter how technically proficient they have become with software and recording principles, it's very hard to get a job in the actual industry and their expensive degrees are next to worthless.

Add in the extreme ease of modern recording, spending $40k on a recording engineering degree is insane. Drop $5k on a good home recording rig and read, read, read then record, mix, and repeat. Trying to find an unpaid internship or being a runner for an engineer/studio is still the best way to get on the job experience, and that's what will ultimately get you projects. If he's really interested pursuing it at a collegiate level, go to Belmont or Berklee and add a music business degree, or diversify in another area, then network like never before.


Belmont cost $30K a year tuition and fees. Throw in a shared apartment and food. Though looking at the GI Bill benefits - holy crap why weren't they that good when I was enlisted.

With what he has in benefits he could go to Belmont, live off campus, and it would cover all but about $8K a year in costs. $1700 an month for housing. That will cover a shared apartment and food.
 
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