NBA Playoffs?
- Thread starter Danhedonia
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VoidTerraFirma
Live to wine
Toronto has ZERO cap room. It would have to be a sign-and-trade and that ain’t gonna happen.
Danhedonia
Noted duckfat enthusiast
This post-season is seeing a rapid turnover in "who's best" conversations. I really don't see LeBron as best any more; he's great, but now he's "one of" vs. The Guy Who Can Choose When To Win. You don't go from the top of the mountain to the bottom in one moment (unless it's a bad injury), and I think he's hitting the rungs on the way down, game by game, before our eyes.
In the meantime, Brown/Rozier/Tatum, Embiid, Giannis & Middleton, AD are letting it be known "we're coming, and not to kiss your rings." While I can't see the current Celtics beating the Warriors, I can see them easily whupping them (yes, whupping) them next year with either Irving or Hayward back, and if it's both, it won't be funny. The only thing that will keep the Warriors' run alive longer will be the NBA deciding that they want to steer officials towards more offensive basketball. Tyronne Lue's "goon" remark was whiny loser bullshit, and he ought to be ashamed (then again, we're talking Lue, shame is not his long suit). The Celtics don't play matador defense; neither do a bunch of other young Eastern Conference teams.
And this is why I hate the narrative of the "dominant west." They're dominant because no one plays defense. They just don't. Oh, Draymond, and Kawhi, and etc. etc. etc., but on a team basis, night over night, possession by possession, I see enormous lack of effort on the part of western teams. It's a jump shooter's delight, and as long as you can move the ball fast enough, that'll do.
Until you get bigger, longer wings who are committed to defense. Then things change, unless you get to do the Harden kick-out-soccer-flop.
In the meantime, Brown/Rozier/Tatum, Embiid, Giannis & Middleton, AD are letting it be known "we're coming, and not to kiss your rings." While I can't see the current Celtics beating the Warriors, I can see them easily whupping them (yes, whupping) them next year with either Irving or Hayward back, and if it's both, it won't be funny. The only thing that will keep the Warriors' run alive longer will be the NBA deciding that they want to steer officials towards more offensive basketball. Tyronne Lue's "goon" remark was whiny loser bullshit, and he ought to be ashamed (then again, we're talking Lue, shame is not his long suit). The Celtics don't play matador defense; neither do a bunch of other young Eastern Conference teams.
And this is why I hate the narrative of the "dominant west." They're dominant because no one plays defense. They just don't. Oh, Draymond, and Kawhi, and etc. etc. etc., but on a team basis, night over night, possession by possession, I see enormous lack of effort on the part of western teams. It's a jump shooter's delight, and as long as you can move the ball fast enough, that'll do.
Until you get bigger, longer wings who are committed to defense. Then things change, unless you get to do the Harden kick-out-soccer-flop.
nuke_diver
Riding Solo
I disagree that no one in the west plays Defense. They probably don't play the kind of D you like but if you look at the metrics Pops teams always play good D always have. Cleveland does not play defense that has and continues to be an issue for them. Toronto played terrible defense against the Cavs so advantage Cavs. Celtics are good at home but not so good on the road and defense is supposed to travel so 
Really if you can move the ball fast enough no defense can handle it, you will eventually find an open guy when someone fails to move as fast 
Really if you can move the ball fast enough no defense can handle it, you will eventually find an open guy when someone fails to move as fast
Danhedonia
Noted duckfat enthusiast
You're right that the Spurs sometimes play good D; you're very wrong about the Celtics. Please cite the game where they played poor D. I have watched all but about 20 games of their season; it's the one thing they do every single game.
The larger point is that for the last 5-8 years, the game has been about jump shooting. Move the ball, take open 3's, win a championship. Or else have LBJ steamroll the lane (which is a) an outlier and b) predicated on some very silly officiating). The Celtics are only one of many teams that are learning how to D up on the perimeter. Or to respond more directly, I think you are not noticing the trend to having defensive rotations respond more quickly.
Aside from my team, I'll be glad to see this development - NBA basketball had become like a dressed up version of the three point contest, and it's boring AF.
The larger point is that for the last 5-8 years, the game has been about jump shooting. Move the ball, take open 3's, win a championship. Or else have LBJ steamroll the lane (which is a) an outlier and b) predicated on some very silly officiating). The Celtics are only one of many teams that are learning how to D up on the perimeter. Or to respond more directly, I think you are not noticing the trend to having defensive rotations respond more quickly.
Aside from my team, I'll be glad to see this development - NBA basketball had become like a dressed up version of the three point contest, and it's boring AF.
nuke_diver
Riding Solo
Well I never said that they played poor D, I said they were good at home and not good on the road (and they haven't been 1-4 isn't good) and defense is suppose to travel. It implies (I get it) that I meant poor D but it could be bad scoring too and since I didn't watch those games much I don't really know
I like the way the game is played now more than the, old half court pound the ball in, days. There seems to be more of a transition game and the 3 point line is something that makes what appears to be a blowout not so much. But more than ever I think it means that the first 40 minutes of a game is potentially irrelevant to the final outcome. Which is why BB, albeit entertaining, isn't a sport I watch all that closely. The playoffs are less so though so I do pay a bit more attention to them
I like the way the game is played now more than the, old half court pound the ball in, days. There seems to be more of a transition game and the 3 point line is something that makes what appears to be a blowout not so much. But more than ever I think it means that the first 40 minutes of a game is potentially irrelevant to the final outcome. Which is why BB, albeit entertaining, isn't a sport I watch all that closely. The playoffs are less so though so I do pay a bit more attention to them
sunvalleylaw
Yep.
FIFY. Malone would travel, charge, and act as though he had been mugged if he couldn't make the shot.
Gimme Payton back. Gimme the f'n Supersonics back.
sunvalleylaw
Yep.
This is why you are wrong. Your opinion is incorrect. The Lakers started it ages ago. Boring freaking basketball. And the refs let Magic travel and double dribble and didn't care. Then later, Jordan and his refs perpetuated it. (payton liked to throw a wrench in now and then. Back then, I was always rooting for the scrappy Bird and Celts against the Lakers, if the Sonics were not in it. And look at the sentence after the one you bolded. You don't even watch the current game as a result, belying your wrongness.Well I never said that they played poor D, I said they were good at home and not good on the road (and they haven't been 1-4 isn't good) and defense is suppose to travel. It implies (I get it) that I meant poor D but it could be bad scoring too and since I didn't watch those games much I don't really know
I like the way the game is played now more than the, old half court pound the ball in, days. There seems to be more of a transition game and the 3 point line is something that makes what appears to be a blowout not so much. But more than ever I think it means that the first 40 minutes of a game is potentially irrelevant to the final outcome. Which is why BB, albeit entertaining, isn't a sport I watch all that closely. The playoffs are less so though so I do pay a bit more attention to them
(just cuz I am trying to be a little nice. )So yeah, still pulling for the Celtics to face the Warriors.
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Danhedonia
Noted duckfat enthusiast
Was not surprised by last night's game. OTOH, I didn't really watch ... NBA is like pro wrestling these days. Obvious scripts, etc. Cavs will win Game 4, which will be "more exciting." C's will win "closer" Game 5. etc. etc. etc.
If you don't know how to run a series to 7 games, you will not be calling NBA games.
FWIW, I think the Bucks got a little jobbed in their series, so not a total homer. Just kind of ... ick. Am expecting Houston-GSW to go 7 as well, even though the Warriors are much better.
If you don't know how to run a series to 7 games, you will not be calling NBA games.
FWIW, I think the Bucks got a little jobbed in their series, so not a total homer. Just kind of ... ick. Am expecting Houston-GSW to go 7 as well, even though the Warriors are much better.
frunobulax
Gak Pernah Cukup!
Yeah, pretty much that. I had little interest in last night's game, foregone conclusion it was gonna be a Cav's blowout. Game 4 will be a little closer, but probably same result in end.
nuke_diver
Riding Solo
So you're saying that the games are scripted and the winners are already determined? PM me the info so I can make some bets, I'm a bit short on cash
@SVL I've always kind of thought that about BB to be honest, at least NBA ball. It's, generally, so much easier for them to score that big leads so often vanish. That's why for the longest time I didn't pay much attention to the NBA preferring NCAA where there was some doubt that teams would actually score every time down. And since it's an opinion it cannot be incorrect
I rather like the current NBA as opposed to when I first started watching even though the ease of scoring thing still remains. Compared to football and hockey that is. But to me it is not boring because there is lots of movement and action. And yeah there is a lot more travelling than there used to be and some of the foul calling is annoying because it seems to be very biased towards (or against) certain players (LeBron and Harden come to mind). I still think Celts and Rockets will be in the final . I would not bet against Brad Stevens, he's a genius!
Boring basketball was back in the old NCAA days of no shot clock and Princeton winning a game against a higher rank team (I don't remember the year or the exact score) by essentially passing the ball around in a game of keepaway. I think the final score was like 25-23
@SVL I've always kind of thought that about BB to be honest, at least NBA ball. It's, generally, so much easier for them to score that big leads so often vanish. That's why for the longest time I didn't pay much attention to the NBA preferring NCAA where there was some doubt that teams would actually score every time down. And since it's an opinion it cannot be incorrect
I rather like the current NBA as opposed to when I first started watching even though the ease of scoring thing still remains. Compared to football and hockey that is. But to me it is not boring because there is lots of movement and action. And yeah there is a lot more travelling than there used to be and some of the foul calling is annoying because it seems to be very biased towards (or against) certain players (LeBron and Harden come to mind). I still think Celts and Rockets will be in the final . I would not bet against Brad Stevens, he's a genius!Boring basketball was back in the old NCAA days of no shot clock and Princeton winning a game against a higher rank team (I don't remember the year or the exact score) by essentially passing the ball around in a game of keepaway. I think the final score was like 25-23
sunvalleylaw
Yep.
So you're saying that the games are scripted and the winners are already determined? PM me the info so I can make some bets, I'm a bit short on cash
@SVL I've always kind of thought that about BB to be honest, at least NBA ball. It's, generally, so much easier for them to score that big leads so often vanish. That's why for the longest time I didn't pay much attention to the NBA preferring NCAA where there was some doubt that teams would actually score every time down. And since it's an opinion it cannot be incorrect
Boring basketball was back in the old NCAA days of no shot clock and Princeton winning a game against a higher rank team (I don't remember the year or the exact score) by essentially passing the ball around in a game of keepaway. I think the final score was like 25-23
Yeah, I was just poking you about that. But I do disagree to an extent with you. Calling the traveling and double dribble tighter, and allowing for some good sticky D like Payton, Stockton, Jason Kidd, DJ, and the like allowed for some slowing down of the game. Run and gun back and forth with a score or foul shot nearly every time is snoozer to me. I want to see some passing it around, and maybe some designed plays, or improv coming off designed play, or scheme, etc.
nuke_diver
Riding Solo
I would like to see the travelling called better as well...sometimes it's so obvious and yet not called. Fouls also I wish were more evenly called. You get some guys getting brushed with a single and they throw their head back and do the soccer flop and they get it every time. Then in the same game a guy gets leveled and nothing . I generally like watching Pop's teams play. They play good straight up D without too much fouling most of the time and move the ball well. This year was a bit of an anomaly with all their injuries and "issues"
. I generally like watching Pop's teams play. They play good straight up D without too much fouling most of the time and move the ball well. This year was a bit of an anomaly with all their injuries and "issues"
Danhedonia
Noted duckfat enthusiast
Cleveland takes G4 107-96ish. You're welcome.
Princeton beat Georgetown.
Re: series, NBA officiating, etc.
The Celtics are not better than the Cavs at this point. They're about evenly matched, and that includes all aspects (e.g., athleticism, experience, specific skills). I would expect the Cavs to win this Series, eventually, with good officiating.
But the officiating in the NBA is truly terrible. And it surely does alter outcomes, not "because of one call," but when you are driving the lane and Kevin Love runs in front of you, and an offensive foul is called on you, you will lose aggressiveness. Yes, part of being an elite athlete is not letting bad calls get to you. But we're not talking about bad calls, we're talking about consistently bad and wrong calls that, for lack of a more artful way to put it, favor TV ratings.
The Warriors get a huge home court advantage. Are their fans great? I'm sure. But fans are pretty rabid in a lot of places.
Officials watch ESPN. And to an extent, they are "used to" certain players, and have worked out over years how certain plays and game flow will be called.
This isn't opinion; there was a general hue and cry over Harden's flops when he attempted jump shots. Does anyone here remember how that was simply called over and over and over? He did it because it worked, until there was a big to-do about it.
Which is bullshit. Referees simply shouldn't have called it, not needed a massive news narrative followed up by a league directive.
I've seen a lot of basketball, and I think by and large the officiating is outstanding - with the glaring exception of the NBA playoffs. It's not hard to wonder why that is.
Princeton beat Georgetown.
Re: series, NBA officiating, etc.
The Celtics are not better than the Cavs at this point. They're about evenly matched, and that includes all aspects (e.g., athleticism, experience, specific skills). I would expect the Cavs to win this Series, eventually, with good officiating.
But the officiating in the NBA is truly terrible. And it surely does alter outcomes, not "because of one call," but when you are driving the lane and Kevin Love runs in front of you, and an offensive foul is called on you, you will lose aggressiveness. Yes, part of being an elite athlete is not letting bad calls get to you. But we're not talking about bad calls, we're talking about consistently bad and wrong calls that, for lack of a more artful way to put it, favor TV ratings.
The Warriors get a huge home court advantage. Are their fans great? I'm sure. But fans are pretty rabid in a lot of places.
Officials watch ESPN. And to an extent, they are "used to" certain players, and have worked out over years how certain plays and game flow will be called.
This isn't opinion; there was a general hue and cry over Harden's flops when he attempted jump shots. Does anyone here remember how that was simply called over and over and over? He did it because it worked, until there was a big to-do about it.
Which is bullshit. Referees simply shouldn't have called it, not needed a massive news narrative followed up by a league directive.
I've seen a lot of basketball, and I think by and large the officiating is outstanding - with the glaring exception of the NBA playoffs. It's not hard to wonder why that is.
sunvalleylaw
Yep.
I agree wtih tyou there.I would like to see the travelling called better as well...sometimes it's so obvious and yet not called. Fouls also I wish were more evenly called. You get some guys getting brushed with a single and they throw their head back and do the soccer flop and they get it every time. Then in the same game a guy gets leveled and nothing
Danhedonia
Noted duckfat enthusiast
sunvalleylaw
Yep.
Oh jeezus! What a crock.
Danhedonia
Noted duckfat enthusiast
Few minutes left, but told you so.
The fouls on Morris, Green and Love were horrible, and the non-calls on Tatum (new bitch on the prison block doncha know!) and especially the bullshit non-calls on LeFraud should tell you about all you need.
Good basketball fans should be sickened -- the real story tonight should have been can LeBron and Korver stave off a decent comeback by an error-prone and nervous but aggressive young Celtics team? Instead, we get pre-packaged SportsCenter highlights.
Anyhow, you should've taken my gambling advice.
The fouls on Morris, Green and Love were horrible, and the non-calls on Tatum (new bitch on the prison block doncha know!) and especially the bullshit non-calls on LeFraud should tell you about all you need.
Good basketball fans should be sickened -- the real story tonight should have been can LeBron and Korver stave off a decent comeback by an error-prone and nervous but aggressive young Celtics team? Instead, we get pre-packaged SportsCenter highlights.
Anyhow, you should've taken my gambling advice.
David_
Facepalmist
How much did you win?
Danhedonia
Noted duckfat enthusiast
I don't gamble. Was trying to help nuke diver.