i don't play his guitars, but this thread is making me a big fan of John Suhr

Help!I'maRock!

Help!I'maRock!

Mediocringly Derivative
the thread is about his import Rasmus line. he's getting browbeaten for 30 pages by TGPers over every last detail. and he has an answer for every one.

We dont hide where they are made or what they go thru after they hit our shop.
China was the United States' largest supplier of goods imports in 2009.
Do you have an iphone, Mac, PC, TV, DVD player, furniture? Most of which is made in China. Or.... many American built guitars in the good old USA are using Chinese hardware on their guitars.
One thing to consider, on the Rasmus the only thing that comes from China is the labor and the tuning gears, we ship them all the other parts and hardware. Even still we might be get the guitar parts un-assembled since we do completely rebuild the guitars and suhrtify them in CA. Because of this we have expanded, moving in to a new building of our own and are hiring which is good for the US economy. I dont wish these guitars to sell because of my reputation, I want them to stand on their own for what they are.
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We ARE keeping it here. Because of this completely separate line, it allows us to create American jobs. All Suhr product is still made here from raw lumber to finished product in our facility. We don't use outside vendors for Bodys, Necks or paint. Even on the Rasmus they are using all the exact same hardware and pickups we use on all of our Suhr guitars right down to the fret wire. We Plek and inspect every Rasmus as if it were a Suhr custom built.
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the Woods are brought in from Europe and America, cut, painted, fretted, (not dressed) and assembled in China with all the hardware, pickups, bridges and fret wire.

Ed Yoon goes to China to inspect and pass/reject product, same type of thing he did at Fender. Ed has know the owners of this company for many years and felt is the one company who would really listen to us. When it lands here we pull the neck, inspect the fit and quality of all the work. We dress the frets here and Plek them with a Plek Pro. This work is all done by my main staff. Then we go through the complete inspection process just like it is anything else. Basically it is factory certified.

We also regularly meet with the factories head engineers to assist them in improving their quality control and advise them on manufacturing methods to reach the highest repeatable quality. The Factory welcomes this since they do work for many other companies as well.

They have a very nice facility whose conditions rivals many large US companies conditions. Their employees are treated very well.

One difference with us is we still perform the fret dress, setup and do detailed inspections. We also don't use our normal brand name since I want there to be NO confusion on where the product comes from. I believe in these guitars enough so that the name Rasmus is my fathers middle name and I would never dishonor his memory.
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with regard to "carbon footprint" (here's the statement:
Quite a carbon footprint on those Rasmus´s! Parts get shipped to Asia, then the guitar to CA for final works, then to the rest of the US, to Europe, (back) to Asia, Australia and so on.)

Nothing we haven't discussed.
I don't think I could ever leave the inspection up to a different company though. It needs to be under my roof for me to really have control.

Our process could not be done by one person over there. It would be a crew of 4 or 5. Due to immigration laws, political issues and cost this would make no sense. We are working on making sure there is less or no fall out but remember....
It all takes time though and we are in the beginning stages.

We are even trying to convince them to purchase the same CNCs so we can do the programing, tooling and training for them. The next trip some of our builders are going.
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and in response to manufacturing companies taking the CNC and using it for other
vendors:

Yes of course that is one of the first things I thought about. On the flip side we are an ant compared to the other companies quantity of orders with them. Normally they would have no desire to be involved with us unless they also wanted something in return.

If it helps the community as a whole by raising the bar for all instruments they produce.... that is OK with me. Better choices for musicians and aspiring musicians who should not need to spend thousands to get a nice guitar. This promotes my initial reasons for being in this business, making music is what this is about and the instruments should not get in the way of this process.

It is depressing to see a discouraged beginner fight a bad instrument his parent shelled out decent money for. He might give up and then that time and money has become a waste. Seen it happen many times.
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i mean, you don't have to like the guitars. but you can't not like the guy. every question has been mulled over. these guitars are $1k. not exactly cheap. but it's still his product and he needs to feel like it's right. you have to respect that.

here's the thread for anybody interested: http://thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?t=658358
 
This sounds exactly like guy who spent over an hour of his day talking to a "nobody" like me to help me get the best instrument for my money. At that time he did the final inspection on every instrument that left the building and rejected an instrument while I was standing there.

Ed yoon is also a great guy. I'll have to check out the gear page thread tomorrow but ultimately if those guys don't like it they can go back to buying overpriced shit guitars.

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That's great. I'm fairly certain that, one day, I'll get a Suhr. I've been close, and all the ones I've tried have been at least very good.
 
He seems like a very reasonable person. I never got the backlash against moves like this. It makes a quality product more affordable to the masses...at least when done correctly.

I love some of the stuff I read on the web about country of origin related to guitars, when the real issue is the price point the factories are asked to build a product to meet. I get a tinge of racist thinking from some of these people, from their thinking that the Chinese or Indonesians can't produce a quality product. I've seen people suggesting that they are basically banging rocks together in a thatch roof hut over there. Reality is quite different, of course. I guess it is a tinge of 'quality American manufacturing' mentality of 1950 or something, but just look at the skylines of Detroit and then look at that of Kuala Lumpur or Shanghai. We are the ones banging rocks together. The reality is, overseas manufacturers often are asked to produce the most product they can to meet a 199 retail price, so the quality will naturally be lower than if they are asked to build for the 1000 price point. I've said many times that I am not a big fan of Korean, Chinese, and Indonesian guitars...but in reality it is actually cheap, mass produced guitars I don't like. Ask one of these same factories to produce a premium guitar, and I'm sure they could match any maker...but it will cost a lot more than most guitar players want to spend in the sweetspot of sub 500 dollar guitars (they sell tons of cheap guitars for every high end model).

I think the Suhr model of combining a factory mentality for assembly, but a craft shop for finishing and inspection is an interesting idea and might produce really good quality stuff. I'd certainly give it a try.
 
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The only deal breaker on the Rasmus for me in my recent superstrat hunt..was the lack of a Floyd. They do have FR equipped models, but nobody here (or close to me) had one. Otherwise, a very good guitar.
 
John Shur's online presence has always struck me as straight-forward and to the point but from the hip, no BS/marketing spin or constant attempt to make it about himself or his guitars. There's a few other builders that seem like genuinely good dudes over there.
 
All that font reminds me of myself when I started getting defensive-combative on Harmony Central,
the interested guitarists fading away while the negators and haters took over.
Only I just didn't type, I used newspaper articles and photos to enhance understanding of myself and my career,
as a professional lead guitarist-vocalist and guitar builder-inventor.
That all led to a life-time ban.

Just to clarify: Off-shore is off-shore. Made in America is Made in America.
And orientals have the oldest written words, the most ancient ceramics, and the largest population.
It's too bad they used nitrates for fireworks, when the British came back with guns and cannons.
 
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A big thumbs up for Mr. Shur, I agree with him completly. He is producing a quality product at prices people can afford. How can you fault hiim for that. Reverend does exactly the same thing except with a Korean manufacturer. They are all shipped to Detriot inspected, frets dressed, inspected and tested all by one person. I have also been present when they have rejected several guitars. The guitar that they retail for $699 would cost twice that if the bodies, and necked were machined here, and the quality would be no different.
 
John Watt said:
All that font reminds me of myself when I started getting defensive-combative on Harmony Central,
the interested guitarists fading away while the negators and haters took over.
Only I just didn't type, I used newspaper articles and photos to enhance understanding of myself and my career,
as a professional lead guitarist-vocalist and guitar builder-inventor.

Just to clarify: Off-shore is off-shore. Made in America is Made in America.
And orientals have the oldest written words, the most ancient ceramics, and the largest population.
It's too bad they used nitrates for fireworks, when the British used it for guns.
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The first cannons and guns were invented by the chinese not Europeans.
 
a good read.
seems like a nice fella.
level-headed too.
guess he'd kinda have to be, eh?
I'd have told all the haters to go piss up a rope.
probably wouldn't have helped sell any gutars, that.:embarrassed:

I'd never heard of Suhr giutars till I came here.

fwiw, it makes no difference to me where a guitar's from.
if I like it, good enough.


as for the guy bitching about the carbon imprint...:facepalm:
seriously?
fuckstick.

why not complain about the trees killed to build the fuckin' guitars?!?
 
"the guy who spent over an hour of his day", only not knowing his name.
Ed yoon. Shur, suhr... yeah... I'm not seeing a lot of respect here.
I don't see a lot of local ambition if a Fender employee embarks on his own off-shore profiteering.

I know hockey isn't about winning for your home town, province or country any more,
unless the tournament advertising is organized that way, the game simply global now,
but music shouldn't be about laws and lawyers and corporations and countries.

Maybe Mr. Mark Wein should have a legal section for manufacturing debates, fer Shure.
 
John Watt said:
"the guy who spent over an hour of his day", only not knowing his name.
Ed yoon. Shur, suhr... yeah... I'm not seeing a lot of respect here.
I don't see a lot of local ambition if a Fender employee embarks on his own off-shore profiteering.

I know hockey isn't about winning for your home town, province or country any more,
unless the tournament advertising is organized that way, the game simply global now,
but music shouldn't be about laws and lawyers and corporations and countries.

Maybe Mr. Mark Wein should have a legal section for manufacturing debates, fer Shure.
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By "offshore profiteering" you mean provideing a quality product at a reasonable price while being able to earn a living to support his family and employing people so they can support their families as well?
 
John Watt said:
"the guy who spent over an hour of his day", only not knowing his name.
Ed yoon. Shur, suhr... yeah... I'm not seeing a lot of respect here.
I don't see a lot of local ambition if a Fender employee embarks on his own off-shore profiteering.

I know hockey isn't about winning for your home town, province or country any more,
unless the tournament advertising is organized that way, the game simply global now,
but music shouldn't be about laws and lawyers and corporations and countries.

Maybe Mr. Mark Wein should have a legal section for manufacturing debates, fer Shure.
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You have not a single bit of comprehension on this matter. Not one bit.
 
Hey! Please don't forget I'm Canadian, just watching all this news.
I hope you appreciate my North American attitude, including y'all.

Besides, a John Watt guitar is the best guitar made for our fleshly phase of existence, so far, for me.
You types it, I been reading it. Font laid is font played.

Be prepared! I'm feeling a little suhrly, uh, surly, because my income tax isn't in today.
 
Help!I'maRock! said:
why should today be different from any other day?
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It isn't, but Johns posts in this thread are especially annoying to me today. This is a company that I've spent a bunch of money with, have dealt with both Ed (when he owned Tone Merchants) and John Suhr personally, I really believe in their products and I am fine with the idea of their trying to bring a lower priced but still high quality product to the marketplace. They have expanded their operations here and have invested in a new facility in a part of California that is not full of wealthy people. What they've added to the tax base in Lake Elsinore alone is probably more than what many of the complainers in this matter have done for their respective communities.
 
If I were able to spend that kind of money on a guitar, I would feel compelled to give these a look. Just looking at them, it isnt what I would normally be drawn to but would love to get my hands on one if I were in that market.
 
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