Citigroup stock trades below 1 dollar per share.

[Chihlidog]

I dont blame the government at all. We're capitalists. I think the investors are being complete morons right now, and I think the banks were complete morons to lend money to people who obviously would not be able to pay it back. Is that the government's fault? We always tell them to give us what we want, they simply didnt stop that from happening.

 

[Help!I'maRock!]

The market's greatest downward push came from the housing bubble collapse. That bubble was plenty swollen as early as 1999. Combine the greed associated with that phenomenon with bad lending regulation forced on our banks (by none other than a Democratic initiative to give underqualified borrowers loans).

The market was ebbing and flowing in it's natural, healthy pattern.

Until our new incompetent administration caused it to swiftly tank through nationalization of huge corporations and a "stimulus" package that will do nothing of the sort.

Investor confidence is nil right now. NIL. Yes, I blame is squarely on Barrack Obama. Yes I do.

You seem to be an educated fellow. How do these facts elude you sir? messedup0

you have presented no facts. and the market clearly wasn't ebbing and flowing. look at the chart. it increased considerably every time there was deregulation. the housing deregulation started in the Republican led Congress of the Clinton era. the swaps of the Bush II era took billions of dollars in loans that couldn't be repaid, sold and resold them until they were "worth" billions more than was actually there, and then people were surprised once the market started tanking at the end of last summer.

if Obama has anything to do with it, its that his election catalyzed the idea that deregulation was over. that's it.

 

[Phil513]

Well, my opinion, fwiw.


During Bush's tenure, he pushed to open up lending to people that normally wouldnt or couldnt get into a home. I heard a speech of his, i'll try to find it, where he pushed to have that opened up. For some reason once owning a home is labeled "the american dream", then it sorta belongs in the bill of rights, like life, liberty etc . . .

Ones lenders started loosening standards for loans, the race was on. Any lender that wasnt posting tons of loans started looking irresponsbile, or even racist. So we end up with a ton of people owning homes that shouldnt have. That bubble was so huge that when it popped, it took out everything else.

Personally, i think it was governments intervention in free markets that landed us where we are.

 

[Phil513]

The whole speech is here. I suppose its a nice idea. But it landed us where we are.


http://isteve.blogspot.com/2008/09/2002-bushs-speech-to-white-house.html

President George W. Bush addresses the White House Conference on Increasing Minority Homeownership at The George Washington University Tuesday, Oct. 15, 2002

THE PRESIDENT: …. I appreciate your attendance to this very important conference. You see, we want everybody in America to own their own home. That's what we want. This is -- an ownership society is a compassionate society.


More and more people own their homes in America today. Two-thirds of all Americans own their homes, yet we have a problem here in America because few than half of the Hispanics and half the African Americans own the home. That's a homeownership gap. It's a -- it's a gap that we've got to work together to close for the good of our country, for the sake of a more hopeful future.


We've got to work to knock down the barriers that have created a homeownership gap.


I set an ambitious goal. It's one that I believe we can achieve. It's a clear goal, that by the end of this decade we'll increase the number of minority homeowners by at least 5.5 million families. (Applause.) … And it's going to require a strong commitment from those of you involved in the housing industry. …

 

[Mark Wein]

The market's greatest downward push came from the housing bubble collapse. That bubble was plenty swollen as early as 1999. Combine the greed associated with that phenomenon with bad lending regulation forced on our banks (by none other than a Democratic initiative to give underqualified borrowers loans).

The market was ebbing and flowing in it's natural, healthy pattern.

Until our new incompetent administration caused it to swiftly tank through nationalization of huge corporations and a "stimulus" package that will do nothing of the sort.

Investor confidence is nil right now. NIL. Yes, I blame is squarely on Barrack Obama. Yes I do.

You seem to be an educated fellow. How do these facts elude you sir? messedup0

But it seems to me like this has been in motion for a long time. As quickly as they are cramming legislation through most of it doesn't seem like it will have any effect good or bad for some time.

I think investor confidence is low and many people don't agree with his policies but I don't think you can squarely blame Obama for this. Yet. As quickly as he is working he just hasn't had time to have this kind of effect on the economy. I agree with Help! that both Democratic and Republicans have had an equal hand in allowing this mess to happen.

I've benefited this month myself from unqualified borrowers losing their homes with my home purchase and there are multiple families living in the house across the street from me who apparently bought their house through a BofA program that allowed undocumented aliens to get home loans with no money down...they are short selling the house right now. They shouldn't have had the house in the first place. They probably knew it, the bank sure as shit knew it and the real estate agents knew it but everyone just went ahead and gave them their time bomb.

Here in California at least things really didn't start getting out of control with the housing values until the last several years and one reason I opened my business was that we couldn't afford to save money as fast as the values were going up so we took that moeny and started Premier. The single famile home values for a short while were in the mid $700k's. The house I just bought we got for 57% the value of its last sale in 2004. That doesn't include the second mortgage the owner pulled out to keep her hair salon going (that eventualy folded right before she lost the house). The bank probably lost over 50% of what they had into the house by the time we bought it.

I agree that nationalizing corporations isn't the best thing but they let stuff go too far too fast. If I mismanage my business its "tough luck" but those guys fuck up on a much larger scale (like the auto companies) and they get bailouts. The people who are losing their home through poor judgement or greed are now getting help from the government while the people who did what they were supposed to financialy have to foot the bill.

From what I understand in your neck of the woods (Florida) its supposed to be as bad or worse than it is here, too....

The whole country is at fault, really.

 

[Mark Wein]

I dont blame the government at all. We're capitalists. I think the investors are being complete morons right now, and I think the banks were complete morons to lend money to people who obviously would not be able to pay it back. Is that the government's fault? We always tell them to give us what we want, they simply didnt stop that from happening.

Perhaps you've gotten to the point in much fewer words than the rest of us

 

[Punchy]

Wasn't it Clinton who started the easy home-ownership deals though? I thought is was his administration that started programs like "ACORN" or whatever that was to get low-income families into houses. . .

Not pointing fingers, and not that it matters, that's just how I was remembering it.

 

[Chihlidog]

Perhaps you've gotten to the point in much fewer words than the rest of us

I just call it like I see it. biggrin

 

[Phil513]

Wasn't it Clinton who started the easy home-ownership deals though? I thought is was his administration that started programs like "ACORN" or whatever that was to get low-income families into houses. . .

Not pointing fingers, and not that it matters, that's just how I was remembering it.

Maybe, i just know of Bush's big push. A whole bunch of people ended up buying homes they had no business buying.

 

[Punchy]

Oh yeah, and Chihli is right

 

[Punchy]

Maybe, i just know of Bush's big push. A whole bunch of people ended up buying homes they had no business buying.

Agreed. There are a lot of empty houses up by us. Our area was the last phase of the most recent sacramento boom, so the next time it explodes, we'll be golden

 

[Phil513]

Agreed. There are a lot of empty houses up by us. Our area was the last phase of the most recent sacramento boom, so the next time it explodes, we'll be golden

I live in Riverside county. It is in the top 3 forclosure regions in the nation, if i remember correctly.

 

[Chihlidog]

Capitalist pigs.

 

[Phil513]

Capitalist pigs.

biggrin i lold.

 

[Help!I'maRock!]

Wasn't it Clinton who started the easy home-ownership deals though? I thought is was his administration that started programs like "ACORN" or whatever that was to get low-income families into houses. . .

Not pointing fingers, and not that it matters, that's just how I was remembering it.

not entirely. it was a Republican led Congress during the Clinton administration. a bi-partisan effort set that particular ball in motion. Bush furthered the effort.

 

[derivicus]

If you need microcosm examples of Democratic liberal policy in action and it's aftermath, look no further than California, NYC, IL, and the like. Taxes are through the roof and state budgets are in ruin.

I am a democrat, but I certaily claim no affiliation with this type of government. It's downright criminal. It's frivolous spending and nothing more.

 

[Phil513]

If you need microcosm examples of Democratic liberal policy in action and it's aftermath, look no further than California, NYC, IL, and the like. Taxes are through the roof and state budgets are in ruin.

I am a democrat, but I certaily claim no affiliation with this type of government. It's downright criminal. It's frivolous spending and nothing more.

I used to think i was republican. I think they are all bastards now, on both sides of the aisle. I dont know what the answer is, unless enough people with brains just get fed up.

 

[derivicus]

not entirely. it was a Republican led Congress during the Clinton administration. a bi-partisan effort set that particular ball in motion. Bush furthered the effort.

I remember clearly how Clinton's line item veto put the brakes on almost everything the "Republican led" Congress tried to do. In the end, it was his baby. No final product remotely resembled a Republican initiative.

The schools don't teach it right, H man. I was already a military veteran before the Clintons came in. I had to live it.

 

[Chihlidog]

I used to think i was republican. I think they are all bastards now, on both sides of the aisle. I dont know what the answer is, unless enough people with brains just get fed up.

This is very true. I'm still a registered Republican, only so I can vote in the republican primary. I hate that I dont have a choice.

 

[hobo]

because the market has become a $600 trillion Ponzi scheme over the past 30 years and the credit crunch back in October finally exposed the stock exchange for the sham it is. End of year numbers came back even lower than lowered expectations and jobs started being shed.

you can try to pin this one on Obama all you want, but the real perpetrators are Congress under the Reagan, Bush, Clinton, and Bush administrations. Look at the timeline in the chart, and the deregulation that happened during that time.

The world is full of trickery rofl