OMG Politics, I'm over it already.

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Peen Simmons said:
Cool story, bro. But Bernie was on the college speaking circuit for a year or so before getting in trying to drum up support for a left-leaning candidate (presumably he was trying to demonstrate to Liz Warren that there was enough support out there to challenge Clinton). When Warren declined to get in the mix, Bernie decided to get in himself, initially as a candidate to push the primary to the left. (Remember, this is back when the smart money was on Jim "Terrible Hairpiece" Webb to be Clinton's real electoral competition...and he's slightly to the right of Attila the Hun.)

If anything, the Bernie vote is born of the remnants of the '08 Obama ground machine and unreformed Occupiers, both camps having been fairly well organized and anti-Clintonian. As late as 2014 I was still getting emails from the local Obama volunteers group that I last had contact with in 2008. They finally left me alone after I told them not to bug me again until Barry called off the drone war and closed Guantanamo.

The Clinton machine is good, but they aren't that crafty. Also, why rile up a bunch of true believers on an exposed flank only to have them point out your failings as a champion of the people when that has been a core element of your message since pre-Iowa ad number one? If anything, awakening the Bernie true believers runs the risk of emboldening the Greens or some other party that isn't an officially bought and paid for asset of Corporate Overlords, Inc.
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You rile up the "true believers" because even though some of them will go back to the green party, or back to their occupy something or other when Clinton gets the nomination, many will stick with the Democratic party because it is the lesser evil. Clinton doesn't have to get them believing in her her to get their vote, she just needs to get them down out of their trees and active. When the general election comes, she be the only choice for them. She keeps even more of the true believers if she makes Sanders her running mate.

I admit - it is a stretch, but I still don't think Sanders was ever serious - you simply don't call yourself a socialist if you seriously want to be president.

The fly in the ointment is what's in it for Sanders. He is 74 which makes him too old for a presidential run in 2024, so he wouldn't interested in the position as a stepping stone to the White House. On the other hand, if Sanders is looking to retirement, a nice comfy spot as VP or secretary of state for four or eight years would be a great way to end your days in politics.
 
GomezAddams said:
You rile up the "true believers" because even though some of them will go back to the green party, or back to their occupy something or other when Clinton gets the nomination, many will stick with the Democratic party because it is the lesser evil. Clinton doesn't have to get them believing in her her to get their vote, she just needs to get them down out of their trees and active. When the general election comes, she be the only choice for them. She keeps even more of the true believers if she makes Sanders her running mate.

I admit - it is a stretch, but I still don't think Sanders was ever serious - you simply don't call yourself a socialist if you seriously want to be president.

The fly in the ointment is what's in it for Sanders. He is 74 which makes him too old for a presidential run in 2024, so he wouldn't interested in the position as a stepping stone to the White House. On the other hand, if Sanders is looking to retirement, a nice comfy spot as VP or secretary of state for four or eight years would be a great way to end your days in politics.
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VP maybe but Secretary of State wouldn't make sense.
 
GomezAddams said:
You rile up the "true believers" because even though some of them will go back to the green party, or back to their occupy something or other when Clinton gets the nomination, many will stick with the Democratic party because it is the lesser evil. Clinton doesn't have to get them believing in her her to get their vote, she just needs to get them down out of their trees and active. When the general election comes, she be the only choice for them. She keeps even more of the true believers if she makes Sanders her running mate.

I admit - it is a stretch, but I still don't think Sanders was ever serious - you simply don't call yourself a socialist if you seriously want to be president.

The fly in the ointment is what's in it for Sanders. He is 74 which makes him too old for a presidential run in 2024, so he wouldn't interested in the position as a stepping stone to the White House. On the other hand, if Sanders is looking to retirement, a nice comfy spot as VP or secretary of state for four or eight years would be a great way to end your days in politics.
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Bernie can look forward to being appointed Ambassador to Vermont. He has zero foreign policy experience so the idea of him running State is ludicrous.

The Clintons owe lots of favors. And their worldview/think tank backgrounds are such that they're looking to stack government with the next generation of neoliberal/neocon/New Democrat centrists and provide them with stepping stones to higher office where they can enshrine the legacy. HRC will probably choose a youngish seeming leading light in the Clintonian mold as her VP. (Rahm Emmanuel was a possibility until he screwed the pooch so effectively in Chicago that he'll be lucky to serve out his term as mayor and avoid indictment.) Some creature from the warmongering, Israel-loving lagoon will be Sec of State.

Bernie isn't a Democrat party member in the true sense. Therefore, the party owes him nothing and he can expect next to nothing in terms of an gold watch and a pat on the ass. He's a kooky dude from a tiny state where they make ice cream and jam bands. With states like FL, VA, OH, etc. in play, you're not gonna waste a pick on an ancient lefty who will only make running your administration difficult.
 
heh


btw I've heard this whole "Bernie has made Hillary much more liberal" spiel far too much. It's total horseshit. Any extra liberal sympathies she is showing are a total facade in a vain attempt to placate real liberals/progressives. Of course it's probably working to some degree :facepalm:
 
sonik said:
heh


btw I've heard this whole "Bernie has made Hillary much more liberal" spiel far too much. It's total horseshit. Any extra liberal sympathies she is showing are a total facade in a vain attempt to placate real liberals/progressives. Of course it's probably working to some degree :facepalm:
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Don't get me wrong. I did not mean to imply she has been made much more liberal. Just that she has to at least address the changing tides. Looking at the room last night, and the aging boomers on the Hillary side, and nearly the whole of anyone under 5o over on the Bernie side, there is no denying that the tides are changing. More incrementally than a lot would like. But they are changing and will have to be addressed by the aging boomers yet in power.
 
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Bernie has certainly changed the conversation on a number of issues on the left and the party/nation needed it. Just the fact that Jim Webb...JIM WEBB...threw his hat in the ring for the Dems is all you need to know about how far right the country has swung over the last 20-30 years. Hillary is exactly what everyone already knows she is...a big-business, socially progressive conservative. She is absolutely not an inflexible Randian/Evangelical ideologue...and that is to her credit. She will make an acceptable 4-year/stay the course placeholder until 2020. If you want some insight into what 4 years of HC will look like, take a look at 88-92 and Bush 1...certainly a reasonable choice given our other options at the present.

And yeah...I'm a Bernie guy.
 
Peen Simmons said:
Bernie can look forward to being appointed Ambassador to Vermont. He has zero foreign policy experience so the idea of him running State is ludicrous.

The Clintons owe lots of favors. And their worldview/think tank backgrounds are such that they're looking to stack government with the next generation of neoliberal/neocon/New Democrat centrists and provide them with stepping stones to higher office where they can enshrine the legacy. HRC will probably choose a youngish seeming leading light in the Clintonian mold as her VP. (Rahm Emmanuel was a possibility until he screwed the pooch so effectively in Chicago that he'll be lucky to serve out his term as mayor and avoid indictment.) Some creature from the warmongering, Israel-loving lagoon will be Sec of State.

Bernie isn't a Democrat party member in the true sense. Therefore, the party owes him nothing and he can expect next to nothing in terms of an gold watch and a pat on the ass. He's a kooky dude from a tiny state where they make ice cream and jam bands. With states like FL, VA, OH, etc. in play, you're not gonna waste a pick on an ancient lefty who will only make running your administration difficult.
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Did you hear about the Bernie Sanders Ben and Jerry's?

"Ben Cohen, one of the co-founders of Ben & Jerry's ice cream and a longtime Sanders supporter, has for months talked about making a special flavor for his home-state senator. Earlier this month, Cohen told MSNBC that he would call the ice cream "Bernie's Yearning," featuring a milk chocolate disk covering the top of plain mint ice cream. The disc is meant to represent "the huge majority of economic gains that have gone to the top 1% since the end of the recession. Beneath it, the rest of us," reads the description on the back of the pint posted on the website."
 
GomezAddams said:
I admit - it is a stretch, but I still don't think Sanders was ever serious - you simply don't call yourself a socialist if you seriously want to be president.
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Living in VT, it's been fun watching everyone get acquainted with our socialist carpetbagger from Brooklyn.

The interesting thing about Sanders is, he has A LOT of support in the rural, typically conservative parts of the state. He does make a point of visiting these areas, even though he could easily ignore them and stay in office. He is true to his word and does seem to be a voice for the common man.

I could see him staying in this race even without the D nomination.
 
wagdog said:
Living in VT, it's been fun watching everyone get acquainted with our socialist carpetbagger from Brooklyn.

The interesting thing about Sanders is, he has A LOT of support in the rural, typically conservative parts of the state. He does make a point of visiting these areas, even though he could easily ignore them and stay in office. He is true to his word and does seem to be a voice for the common man.

I could see him staying in this race even without the D nomination.
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Curious, do Democrats have to sign a "I won't run as an independent if I lose the primary" pledge like Republicans?
 
sonik said:
Ben & Jerry's is ice cream for the 1%.

Stuff is freakin expensive!
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Around here when it's on sale it's no more expensive than most of the brands, maybe except for the Kroger value brand. It's actually quite a bit cheaper than our two local companies.
 
wagdog said:
Living in VT, it's been fun watching everyone get acquainted with our socialist carpetbagger from Brooklyn.

The interesting thing about Sanders is, he has A LOT of support in the rural, typically conservative parts of the state. He does make a point of visiting these areas, even though he could easily ignore them and stay in office. He is true to his word and does seem to be a voice for the common man.

I could see him staying in this race even without the D nomination.
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If he loses the nomination, he will not run. He wouldn't want to split the D voters and allow Trump in. Even though I think Trump's run is only to ensure a Clinton win. It didn't go exactly as they planned though. He is winning the nomination, when I think, he was trying to lose so he could run as a third party and split the R votes so she easily win.
 
I prefer to eat Talenti. Because those plastic jars it comes in are SO useful around the house.
 
Kerouac said:
Around here when it's on sale it's no more expensive than most of the brands, maybe except for the Kroger value brand. It's actually quite a bit cheaper than our two local companies.
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Your state must not have protectionist tariffs in place to protect local businesses. Bernie Sanders would not be proud.
 
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