The Internet.

[Tyler Walton]

Do you guys ever have students come into your lessons having spent time on youtube or various websites compiling "supplemental" materials to work on? I'm sorry, but this is a trend that is wearing thin on me as a drum instructor. There is a popular website that provides free drum lessons, and I have been experiencing more and more students either double-checking concepts that I introduce in our lessons or straight-up bringing in concepts from this site that they would like to work on. I encourage students to be curious and to look up their favorite drummers on youtube. However, I keep getting these beginning-level students overwhelming themselves with information (cuz it's FREE!) and then expecting me to cover all of it in our lessons. I end up having to explain to them that they need to trust me that I'm giving them exactly what I feel they need to be working on and improving upon based on their level of ability. It really frustrates me when a student of mine has spent a week banging his/her head against a wall trying to learn a groove or fill that: a) I didn't assign to them, b) they can't play, and c) was demonstrated in an impractical and un-musical fashion off some website. It makes me feel like some students really don't care about what I am teaching them.

 

[Kerouac]

That and "Oh, my friend taught me this." Yeah, I know.. I taught your friend how to play that and he had to pay his dues to learn it. There's a lot more to learning a riff or a fill than mechanical repetition.

 

[Mark Wein]

I used to get this alot. Not as much anymore. The harder thing is when you get a kid whose dad was teaching him first. Then it's "my dad taught me this way so in going to do that instead".

And it's usually fucking wrong and then I have a kid who can't play very well because of the person who is paying the bills for the lesson.


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[Kerouac]

I used to get this alot. Not as much anymore. The harder thing is when you get a kid whose dad was teaching him first. Then it's "my dad taught me this way so in going to do that instead".

And it's usually fucking wrong and then I have a kid who can't play very well because of the person who is paying the bills for the lesson.


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Story checks out.

"Dad said I should play it like this instead." Well, if dad knew WTF he was talking about, he wouldn't send you to me, right?

 

[Tyler Walton]

I've been working on the five-stroke roll rudiment with a beginning student. In last night's lesson he came in all excited because he had gone to this free drum lessons website and watched a video of some guy demonstrating how to use the rudiment around the drumset. My student really wanted to be able to play it that fast and just like the guy in the video. I encouraged him to continue practicing the rudiment slowly and with a metronome so he could learn the accent pattern, stick control, timing, etc. I went home that night and found the website that several of my students have been consulting. The five-stroke roll demonstration was presented as a groove AND a fill that, if played on a gig, would cause everyone in the band to turn around in bewilderment. It's good to take rudimental patterns and put them on the drums, but some of them just don't translate well; the five-stroke roll being one of them. Now I have to explain all that to my student, which will undoubtedly be met with a blank stare.

 

[grover]

I hate to admit it but I fell into that category as a beginning Guitar student myself. I first started on all the "Free" online stuff but quickly realized I needed more structure. Especially when I started the Rock performance class and realized I couldn't play squat!!!! Also with my busy schedule I needed that "Oh No My lesson with Mark is coming up this week and I haven’t practiced yet" panic to force me to do my structured practice. Mark was also very up front at the beginning that he did not have anything new or magic as far as teaching guitar goes but offered a structured approach to learning the guitar and could tailor his lessons to best fit my ability and goals. I've been there over a year now and the payoff is evident. I would not be anywhere close as I am now without a personal instructor who is honestly interested in seeing me move ahead and succeed in my goal to learn how to play this dag nab instrument. So if anybody out there in internet land thinks they can just get buy with the free stuff on-line, while it might be true for some, my experience is that I have made much greater progress with regular lessons with an instuctor who knows what he is doing. O.K The soap box is now available.

 

[Mark Wein]

I've been working on the five-stroke roll rudiment with a beginning student. In last night's lesson he came in all excited because he had gone to this free drum lessons website and watched a video of some guy demonstrating how to use the rudiment around the drumset. My student really wanted to be able to play it that fast and just like the guy in the video. I encouraged him to continue practicing the rudiment slowly and with a metronome so he could learn the accent pattern, stick control, timing, etc. I went home that night and found the website that several of my students have been consulting. The five-stroke roll demonstration was presented as a groove AND a fill that, if played on a gig, would cause everyone in the band to turn around in bewilderment. It's good to take rudimental patterns and put them on the drums, but some of them just don't translate well; the five-stroke roll being one of them. Now I have to explain all that to my student, which will undoubtedly be met with a blank stare.

I'd imagine that getting a newish drum student to understand that 99% of the time anything flashy or complicated is the WRONG thing to play is pretty difficult.

I hate to admit it but I fell into that category as a beginning Guitar student myself. I first started on all the "Free" online stuff but quickly realized I needed more structure. Especially when I started the Rock performance class and realized I couldn't play squat!!!! Also with my busy schedule I needed that "Oh No My lesson with Mark is coming up this week and I haven’t practiced yet" panic to force me to do my structured practice. Mark was also very up front at the beginning that he did not have anything new or magic as far as teaching guitar goes but offered a structured approach to learning the guitar and could tailor his lessons to best fit my ability and goals. I've been there over a year now and the payoff is evident. I would not be anywhere close as I am now without a personal instructor who is honestly interested in seeing me move ahead and succeed in my goal to learn how to play this dag nab instrument. So if anybody out there in internet land thinks they can just get buy with the free stuff on-line, while it might be true for some, my experience is that I have made much greater progress with regular lessons with an instuctor who knows what he is doing. O.K The soap box is now available.

I feel all warm inside. (I'll slip you a $20 after class )

I get a lot of folks who ask if I think I am giving away too much information online for free but the reality is that someone who really wants to learn is going to discover that they need an instructor to keep them on track (at least in the very beginning). In a way I'm putting my resume out there, and when someone is ready to take lessons they already know what I'm all about.

 

[reverend1]

when someone is ready to take lessons they already know what I'm all about.

Guthrie Govan?

 

[Mark Wein]

Guthrie Govan?

:

 

[reverend1]

 

[Kerouac]

I'd imagine that getting a newish drum student to understand that 99% of the time anything flashy or complicated is the WRONG thing to play is pretty difficult.

Getting established ones is even worse. They always think they know all about groove and you have to go way back to the basics to fix things they rushed through. If I can get a drum student early on, it's a whole lot easier to teach them long term.

 

[reverend1]

Getting established ones is even worse. They always think they know all about groove and you have to go way back to the basics to fix things they rushed through. If I can get a drum student early on, it's a whole lot easier to teach them long term.

<-------Struggling to come up with a joke about your sister. Wow, that sounds really bad.

 

[Kerouac]

<-------Struggling to come up with a joke about your sister. Wow, that sounds really bad.

She doesn't play drums anymore. Last time she tried she hit herself with a drumstick.

Teaching my sister anything is a pointless endeavor.

 

[Mark Wein]

Getting established ones is even worse. They always think they know all about groove and you have to go way back to the basics to fix things they rushed through. If I can get a drum student early on, it's a whole lot easier to teach them long term.

I spend a lot of time in my classes with adult drummers just getting them to sit correctly and hold the sticks properly. Little things like keeping your left arm off of your left leg and playing through the snare drum. Lots of things that should be addressed in private lessons but because a guy thinks he can play a rock beat he is beyond that stuff. And its all of those little details that are the problem.

 

[Mark Wein]

Or even getting them to realize that their kick pattern isn't a random thing but is actually part of a song.

 

[reverend1]

She doesn't play drums anymore. Last time she tried she hit herself with a drumstick.

Teaching my sister anything is a pointless endeavor.

That is awesome! I always feel slightly better about my limited abilities after watching that video.

 

[wagdog]

Guys,

Just to sort of play devils advocate here; I think you're going to have to get used to, and accept, that internet is always going to your ally and your enemy. You might as well accept it and embrace it.

And to throw something out there, Mark certainly has - he has tons of videos online, I would imagine most of it reinforces what he teaches. Also guessing, but I would bet he has his students watch his videos during the week? And yes, I realize you guys are talking about drum lessons, but the same thing applies.

So not only do you have to teach your students while they're with you, you have to teach them how critically evaluate other instructional materials that they are going to inevitably find elsewhere - and even better, use that information to add to what you're teaching.

FWIW.

 

[Mark Wein]

Guys,

Just to sort of play devils advocate here; I think you're going to have to get used to, and accept, that internet is always going to your ally and your enemy. You might as well accept it and embrace it.

And to throw something out there, Mark certainly has - he has tons of videos online, I would imagine most of it reinforces what he teaches. Also guessing, but I would bet he has his students watch his videos during the week? And yes, I realize you guys are talking about drum lessons, but the same thing applies.

So not only do you have to teach your students while they're with you, you have to teach them how critically evaluate other instructional materials that they are going to inevitably find elsewhere - and even better, use that information to add to what you're teaching.

FWIW.

Thats part of the reason why we just added the new drum forum for Tyler to share stuff that actually is worth supplementing their lessons with. I use the internet all the time with my students but I'm usually directing my students towards my stuff or lessons that I like. Tyler has been having students get online and find lessons from Expert Village or other websites with dubious credentials and try to learn things that are not only too difficult for most beginners to play but also incorrectly taught.

 

[wagdog]

Thats part of the reason why we just added the new drum forum for Tyler to share stuff that actually is worth supplementing their lessons with. I use the internet all the time with my students but I'm usually directing my students towards my stuff or lessons that I like. Tyler has been having students get online and find lessons from Expert Village or other websites with dubious credentials and try to learn things that are not only too difficult for most beginners to play but also incorrectly taught.

Yep, I can see where that would be frustrating as a teacher.

FWIW, I am a teacher (not music) and this isn't an uncommon phenomena regardless of subject.

It's the teachers that figure out how leverage their students natural curiosity and access to information that will come out ahead (as will their students). The good news is the student is compelled to learn and seeking more information, the bad news is they don't necessarily have the background to be able to discern what's good information from bad - and that may well be something YOU have to teach!

I guess my point is, to be blunt, get used to it, embrace it and work with it. Fighting it won't work. Get used to being questioned and challenged by students. I'd rather be challenged by a student then have then not have them care one way or the other. It gives you the opportunity to open up a dialogue about why something is the way it is.

 

[Kerouac]

I don't mind students questioning the why. I *do* mind students challenging my methods, deciding that "easier" way is better, and losing students because they're not making progress. Anyone can improve if the goal is just learning a new riff. A good teacher is trying to teach more than that and while outside materials are fine, material that undermines my carefully constructed, individualized program is wasting my time and my student's.


Sent from my iPhone at a Tijuana donkey show.