Modellers vs amps, my latest observation.

[Dexter Inferno]

I've talked a bit about going back to tube amps with regards to live gigging the last year or so. But this monday I first recorded a scratch track through the TC/Ampworx Jims 800 pedal going into my Audient interface. Then recorded drums and redid the basic rhythm guitars using my DSL20 miced with a Beyer m160 and m201. Spent good time tweaking both setups, but what I noticed the difference in quality between the two was...staggering! It's not just the tone itself, but what I recorded with the Marshall setup just sat much more nicely in the mix - that particular bit doesn't surprise me though. But I found it quite shocking how big the difference was. And the Marshall wasn't played all that loudly either. But it's gotten to the point now that I'm not even sure what the difference actually is. One big factor for sure has to be the speaker and mics. As good as IR's are these days they can't reproduce a speaker in whatever room it's in. It's impossible. And having an amp/speaker setup just loud enough to facilitate controlled feedback is a beautiful thing - and that really can't be repoduced in a bedroom at low volume.
But it is a bit odd that I can't really quantify why the amp/cab setup sounds sooooo much better recorded. But I just know that it does..
Same thing as with programmed/sample replaced drums. They can never beat the real thing played by an actual human.

I must be getting old.
Tried all sorts of modellers and stuff like that, but I had an epiphany the other day. The joy of playing through a proper rig can't really be replaced. And most of it probably is due to the interplay between player, amp, cabinet. Something happens between all those parts that I can't really explain. It just feels so much better..

 

[jrockbridge]

I prefer a tube amp when I can play it loud. But, I’m glad I have modelers as well.

 

[Dexter Inferno]

A few weeks later and thinking about it, I'm not knocking modellers at all, but for what I'm doing these days (live bands/gigging) tube amps work so much better for me. One thing I thought about the other day is that the modelling thing works really well when (definitely in the metal genre) recording next to sampled drums and VST instruments and that sort of thing. What I noticed was when I recorded the Marshall next to un-processed live drums and bass the whole thing just sounded immeasurably better. Then there's the whole thing of controlled feedback - which you can only achieve with a fair bit of volume in the room. You can't really do that just with a modeller and in-ears.

And as already mentioned, myself I just play better when I've got some real volume going. These days I really couldn't have gone completely silent on stage. I tried for a while, and what would eventually happen was I'd play with way too much gain.

 

[baimun]

I’m right there with you. I love the variety of tones and effects that can all change from song to song with my Kemper…. But ever since trying out my Soldano Astro on stage I’m just stunned at how EASY it makes my playing. It just responds to my playing dynamics the way an amp should without excuses.

Even using in ears is easy with the IR output. The majority of the tone is those glorious glass bottles in the preamp. They sound best through the power tubes and a speaker, but the IRs are closer IMO than the same tones via a modeller or profiler.

 

[GomezAddams]

My ears love my old Marshall 100w combo amp, but my back likes the Pod Go much better.

 

[micwalt]

I've been playing through modelers for so long now that I'm just used to it.

 

[dodgechargerfan]

What happens if you capture your DSL20 through those mics?

Is the difference less noticeable?

Honest question; not trolling.

 

[jrockbridge]

If I turn off the speaker sim in my ToneX One, plug it into into my 50 watt Fryette, Power Station PS2 in self attenuation mode, feed that into a real guitar speaker cabinet, and crank it up loud, the feel, plus sound, is very close to a real tube amp. It gives 90% of the satisfaction of an amp-in-a-room experience. Of course, the PS2 is a real tube amp power section and the speaker cabinet is the real deal. I’m convinced the real guitar cabinet next to the player is a big part of the tube amp experience, the feel and sound.

The Fryette PS2 by itself is dull. It needs a good preamp to make the magic. The ToneX One works effectively as an excellent preamp.

 

[jaxn slim]

If I turn off the speaker sim in my ToneX One, plug it into into my 50 watt Fryette, Power Station PS2 in self attenuation mode, feed that into a real guitar speaker cabinet, and crank it up loud, the feel, plus sound, is very close to a real tube amp. It gives 90% of the satisfaction of an amp-in-a-room experience. Of course, the PS2 is a real tube amp power section and the speaker cabinet is the real deal. I’m convinced the real guitar cabinet next to the player is a big part of the tube amp experience, the feel and sound.

The Fryette PS2 by itself is dull. It needs a good preamp to make the magic. The ToneX One works effectively as an excellent preamp.

I just ordered a Tonex One, and it's arriving today. It is for my pedal steel to run straight into the board and would be replacing a few overdrives and modulation pedals going into an Iridium amp simulator. I'm excited, but my goal is to control it during gigs with my iPad which I have mounted on one of the pedal steel legs, and I'm unsure whether the iOS app can support that well enough. We'll see. I only need 3-4 different sounds in a gig, so I'm hoping I can manage that easily.

 

[jrockbridge]

I just ordered a Tonex One, and it's arriving today. It is for my pedal steel to run straight into the board and would be replacing a few overdrives and modulation pedals going into an Iridium amp simulator. I'm excited, but my goal is to control it during gigs with my iPad which I have mounted on one of the pedal steel legs, and I'm unsure whether the iOS app can support that well enough. We'll see. I only need 3-4 different sounds in a gig, so I'm hoping I can manage that easily.

 

[Bob411]

HNTOD

 

[bsman]

 

[jrockbridge]

I just ordered a Tonex One, and it's arriving today. It is for my pedal steel to run straight into the board and would be replacing a few overdrives and modulation pedals going into an Iridium amp simulator. I'm excited, but my goal is to control it during gigs with my iPad which I have mounted on one of the pedal steel legs, and I'm unsure whether the iOS app can support that well enough. We'll see. I only need 3-4 different sounds in a gig, so I'm hoping I can manage that easily.

Apparently, an Airstep TX edition by Xsonic Audio is the ultimate pairing for ToneX or ToneX One. I don’t know that much about it yet, but it seems to solve the preset challenge, if using a ToneX One by itself. It also allows controlling parameters of the Tonex One pedal through their phone app.

I think I’m going to get one. Black Friday pricing, or used ones are available, for reasonable prices.

Xonic web link

 

[Mark Wein]

I've been playing through modelers for so long now that I'm just used to it.

Same here. I still play through amps occasionaly at work but for the most part I've got my digital stuff sounding and feeling how I like it these days.

 

[Mark Wein]

I just ordered a Tonex One, and it's arriving today. It is for my pedal steel to run straight into the board and would be replacing a few overdrives and modulation pedals going into an Iridium amp simulator. I'm excited, but my goal is to control it during gigs with my iPad which I have mounted on one of the pedal steel legs, and I'm unsure whether the iOS app can support that well enough. We'll see. I only need 3-4 different sounds in a gig, so I'm hoping I can manage that easily.

Apparently, an Airstep TX edition by Xsonic Audio is the ultimate pairing for ToneX or ToneX One. I don’t know that much about it yet, but it seems to solve the preset challenge, if using a ToneX One by itself. It also allows controlling parameters of the Tonex One pedal through their phone app.

I think I’m going to get one. Black Friday pricing, or used ones are available, for reasonable prices.

Xonic web link

View attachment 115017

I just ordered a Tonex One, and it's arriving today. It is for my pedal steel to run straight into the board and would be replacing a few overdrives and modulation pedals going into an Iridium amp simulator. I'm excited, but my goal is to control it during gigs with my iPad which I have mounted on one of the pedal steel legs, and I'm unsure whether the iOS app can support that well enough. We'll see. I only need 3-4 different sounds in a gig, so I'm hoping I can manage that easily.

I've got two of the Airstep TX pedals - one for my Tonex One and one with my bigger ToneX. It makes my ToneX one especially useful as you can not only change presets and engage effects from the pedal but I usually have the phone app open to adjust things much quicker. TBH, I don't use my big Tonex much other than to play through at home believe it or not because the form factor is not as practical for a "carry around" rig that I can use for classes, rehearsals or small gigs and anything bigger I use the Fractal FM9 for. For a pedal steel solution I think its a great choice. Having a good LI box like the Walrus or a Radial is a good idea, though. Mine is running off of a battery power supply in the picture below. The Airstep TX battery power for the ToneX One is supposed to last 3 hours but seems to not last quite that long. Having 8-10 hours of battery is pretty important for me.


View attachment 115035

 

[jrockbridge]

I just ordered an Airstep TX, Black Friday deal direct from Xsonic $79 + shipping = 90.71. I noticed that Amazon has it for $99.99, 2 day shipping with Prime membership.

 

[jaxn slim]

I've got two of the Airstep TX pedals - one for my Tonex One and one with my bigger ToneX. It makes my ToneX one especially useful as you can not only change presets and engage effects from the pedal but I usually have the phone app open to adjust things much quicker. TBH, I don't use my big Tonex much other than to play through at home believe it or not because the form factor is not as practical for a "carry around" rig that I can use for classes, rehearsals or small gigs and anything bigger I use the Fractal FM9 for. For a pedal steel solution I think its a great choice. Having a good LI box like the Walrus or a Radial is a good idea, though. Mine is running off of a battery power supply in the picture below. The Airstep TX battery power for the ToneX One is supposed to last 3 hours but seems to not last quite that long. Having 8-10 hours of battery is pretty important for me.


View attachment 115035

Thanks for the tip in the Airstep. It sounds like it's exactly what I need. I just ordered one!

I'm a fan of the LI boxes. I use one with my Iridium, which has been my go-to amp modeler for a bit. But I just got the stereo Walrus to run with this guy. Here's my "in development" messy setup for pedal steel. It's about the same footprint size as my current setup, but I only really use one amp in the Iridium, so this will give me a lot more options, and I'm stoked.

 

[Mark Wein]

Thanks for the tip in the Airstep. It sounds like it's exactly what I need. I just ordered one!

I'm a fan of the LI boxes. I use one with my Iridium, which has been my go-to amp modeler for a bit. But I just got the stereo Walrus to run with this guy. Here's my "in development" messy setup for pedal steel. It's about the same footprint size as my current setup, but I only really use one amp in the Iridium, so this will give me a lot more options, and I'm stoked.View attachment 115111

Yeah - I have two of the mono Canvas boxes and one of the little version for the Iridium rig my students play through. Makes me not hate the Irridium now.

One thing that I do with the Airstep is not only change presets with it but I use the compressor as a lead boost with the compression turned down and the gain turned all the way up since there are no drive-style blocks in the ToneX.

 

[Modern Saint]

I keep trying but cannot get the hang of it. Still old school with amps. Funny part is that when I hear someone else play through it, I don't mind. But when I play through it, it does not respond the way an amp with pedals do.

 

[Mark Wein]

I keep trying but cannot get the hang of it. Still old school with amps. Funny part is that when I hear someone else play through it, I don't mind. But when I play through it, it does not respond the way an amp with pedals do.

I'd be curious to have you play through my rig.